Hydra heads

[TimSmith]

A bit confused here about hydra heads. The MM states that all the hydra's heads make attacks of opportunity using its combat reflexes feat.

Does this mean that each head gets multiple AoO if multiple openings arise? (eg 2 PCs charge it, each PC gets attacked 5 times by the 5 headed hydra. Or a PC moves within threatened area and casts a spell=10 AoO.)

I am thinking that this must be the case because otherwise it wouldn't matter if ALL the hydra's heads were allowed to be used for AoO- one would be sufficient to make the AoOs. However, it seems rather nasty.

Any thoughts? Has anyone seen any official rulings on this? Am I simply missing something?

 

[Corsair]

I've always read it as thus: If it is a 5 headed hydra, with 12 dex, it can make 10 AoO. 2 per head. When you provoke 1 AoO, all five heads can make an AoO if they want to.

 

[Stalker0]

We had a big long debate about this a while ago. I think it came up a stalemate.

There are actually 3 interpretations:

1) Hydras get 2 AOOS, but since a hydra's standard attack includes all of its heads, it gets X attacks per AOO, X being the number of heads it has.

2) Hydras get 1 AOO which again is a number of attacks equal to the number of heads it has. The combat reflexes feat is actually changed from it original meaning to allow all of the hydra heads to attack.

3) Hydras get a number of AOOs per round equal to the number of heads it has, but only gets one head attack per AOO. In this interpretation, combat reflexes works just like normal, it gives you additional AOOs. Hydras get the special bonus of gaining a number of AOOs equal to the heads they have.

 

[Halcyon]

I've never been convinced that there is any vaild interpretation other than option 1.

 

[mvincent]

oh boy... this thread is unlikely to end well. After 5+ pages of discussion in this recent thread (plus the dozens of other threads I've seen on this), we still don't have winner.

Feel free to ask WotC custserv here. With enough pestering, they might finally decide to add it to the FAQ.

 

[mikebr99]

A bit confused here about hydra heads. The MM states that all the hydra's heads make attacks of opportunity using its combat reflexes feat.

Does this mean that each head gets multiple AoO if multiple openings arise? (eg 2 PCs charge it, each PC gets attacked 5 times by the 5 headed hydra. Or a PC moves within threatened area and casts a spell=10 AoO.)

I am thinking that this must be the case because otherwise it wouldn't matter if ALL the hydra's heads were allowed to be used for AoO- one would be sufficient to make the AoOs. However, it seems rather nasty.

Any thoughts? Has anyone seen any official rulings on this? Am I simply missing something?

You're not missing anything... in my books.

That is how I DM them.

Mike

 

[Infiniti2000]

What about a Hydrasmurf?

 

[TimSmith]

We had a big long debate about this a while ago. I think it came up a stalemate.

There are actually 3 interpretations:

1) Hydras get 2 AOOS, but since a hydra's standard attack includes all of its heads, it gets X attacks per AOO, X being the number of heads it has.

2) Hydras get 1 AOO which again is a number of attacks equal to the number of heads it has. The combat reflexes feat is actually changed from it original meaning to allow all of the hydra heads to attack.

3) Hydras get a number of AOOs per round equal to the number of heads it has, but only gets one head attack per AOO. In this interpretation, combat reflexes works just like normal, it gives you additional AOOs. Hydras get the special bonus of gaining a number of AOOs equal to the heads they have.

Well, on reading as much of the other thread as I could stand, I can see I am not the only one who is confused by the Hydra's AoOs!

I can see where people get their differing views from, but I am going to go for option 1. YMMV, but I think this accurately depicts the waving forest of heads snapping around an approaching attacker, it is limited by the Hydra's DEX bonus of +1 (unless I boost it ) and is more in keeping with the ability to attack with all heads on charging etc. The MM does state that Hydras are specifically designed to be difficult to defeat without group teamwork. Also, the AoO can be avoided if the fighters wait for the beast to come to them and then 5 foot step up close to counter-attack or ready a sunder attempt against an attacking head (as suggested in the MM).

I am going to be running a Cryohydra in the Shackled City very soon. I think I will have each head count as an independent creature for the breath weapons as well. This will give the party a break if they use energy resistance (only 3D6 per head, rather than 21D6) and let me blast some cool ice jets off amongst other heads biting etc.

 

[airwalkrr]

I have never agreed with option 1. Whenever I think about it, I imagine a fighter rushing up to a twelve-headed hydra. The twelve heads simultaneously attempt to converge on the fighter and wind up colliding with each other, knocking each head unconscious from the force. The fighter shrugs and starts chopping off unconscious hydra heads while telling the party wizard to note in his journal that you kill hydras by provoking attacks of opportunity.

I think a hydra gets one AoO per head, not multiple attacks per AoO provoked. Basically you treat the number of heads a hydra has as its Dex mod for purposes of determining its AoOs per round. Extrapolate a bit and it starts to make sense. There is no reason you couldn't have a fifty-headed hydra by just building on existing rules, and nothing can convince me that fifty heads can all attack the same character within the fractional space in time it takes to provoke one AoO.

Of course the ambiguous wording in the MM alone makes this whole thing debatable. I think it should be painfully obvious just by looking at the plain CR 4 hydra. Five attacks at +6 for 1d10+3 damage just for an AoO seems a bit much. Fighter moves up, takes five whacks, rogue moves up, takes five whacks, hydra acts, five more whacks. No other CR 4 monster is even remotely capable of that sheer amount of damage in one round even if critically hittng. It is bad enough to take one attack from a hydra while moving up when you know you are going to get attack five more times when the hydra acts next. Using option 1 just makes a hydra a practically impossible encounter unless the DM is soft-balling and/or fudging dice.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Whenever I think about it, I imagine a fighter rushing up to a twelve-headed hydra. The twelve heads simultaneously attempt to converge on the fighter and wind up colliding with each other, knocking each head unconscious from the force.

So, when the hydra attacks normally, you don't allow it to attack with all of its heads on one target then? What's the maximum number of heads on one target?