Hydras and AoOs

[timbannock]

From d20srd.org:

Feats

A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.

Is this as nutty as I think it is? Does that mean if you provoke from the Hydra, you are provoking from all of its heads? Or does it mean that the Hydra still only gets 1 AoO on a person at a time, but they can do this as many times as they have heads (i.e., the # of heads replaces their Dex modifier for purposes of figuring out how many AoOs they get with the Combat Reflexes feat).

 

[Infiniti2000]

There have been many threads and heated debates on this. Here is but one:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=162753

Google"hydra attack of opportunity site:enworld.org/showthread" for more -- leave out the "showthread" if you want archived topics.

 

[robberbaron]

I get real tired of the vitriol that gets spouted about this sort of question (some people have STRONG opinions) so I'll just give mine and leave it at that.

In my game I have thrown a couple of hydras at the party and they were able to take 1 AoO whenever anybody provoked one, up to the number of heads (unless it had Combat Reflexes when this went up to No. of heads + Dex bonus).

Good luck getting an answer that suits you.

 

[timbannock]

Thanks both. I can see why people can get pretty heated with this one...especially considering I don't see any mention in errata or on WoTC's site. You'd think they'd pay attention to something like this in the CORE RULES... :\

My players play tough, and have turned much more deadly encounters into cake-walks if I so much as forget one small aspect of their foes' statblocks. They also know what they're up against here, so they'll be walking into it prepared.

So, I plan to make this bugger tough. It's listed as EL 15 in the Rappan Athuk Reloaded book, so I'm going to make it feel like that. So, Senor Hydra gets [# of heads] attacks on each of his two AoOs per round (1 normal, 1 from Combat Reflexes with Dex 12).

In a less high-powered campaign, I think I'd go with what robberbaron says.

 

[Ibn Khaldun]

Hmm... I wonder if I wouldn't play it that each head gets two AoOs so that the Hydra gets [# of Heads] x 2 AoO per turn but, for any individual AoO, it can only use one head once, not gang up and hit some poor sap with an attack from each head for a single AoO. But that's just me.

 

[darthkilmor]

So, Senor Hydra gets [# of heads] attacks on each of his two AoOs per round (1 normal, 1 from Combat Reflexes with Dex 12).

I would agree with you and run it the same way(but certainly can appreciate the debate either way).

I do notice though that Ettin's don't get anything special wrt AoO's...oversight probably?

 

[Greywarden]

Ettins don't attack with their heads.

Ettins don't have Combat Reflexes listed as feats.

Oversight, or just two stupid to use their two-heads effectively?


As for Hydras, I'm in the number of heads + Dex Bonus camp.

 

[frankthedm]

Numbers wise, IMHO letting take hydra take a bite with every head as a single AoO just makes it too strong for it's CR, at least at the low ends of the CR scale.

 

[mvincent]

Numbers wise, IMHO letting take hydra take a bite with every head as a single AoO just makes it too strong for it's CR, at least at the low ends of the CR scale.

I agree, and run it this way. However, the intent seems to favor the other side slightly (even though that is a heck of a lot of AoO's), so I wish that we could get some sort of official WotC ruling on it.

Either way, it works equally for the PC's... who will almost certainly control or polymorph into a hydra at some point.

 

[robberbaron]

So, I plan to make this bugger tough. It's listed as EL 15 in the Rappan Athuk Reloaded book, so I'm going to make it feel like that. So, Senor Hydra gets [# of heads] attacks on each of his two AoOs per round (1 normal, 1 from Combat Reflexes with Dex 12).

Wow, that is tough. I guess your players are acomplished combat monkeys with huge ACs.
Then again, it makes the first two PC attacks VERY dangerous rather than making many attacks a bit dangerous. Be interesting to see how your players fare.