D&D General Hypothetical: D&D without ability scores (or bonuses)

[AnotherGuy]

If I am playing in Waterdeep, Threshold or Barovia and there are no ability scores...it is still D&D to me...

D&D is more than ability scores IMO.
The absence of a mechanic does not stop it being D&D.

 

[Reynard]

What if the ability scores were there but applied no bonuses or penalties to rolls. For example, Strength just said how much you could carry and Intelligence just said what level spells you could cast, etc?

 

[jmartkdr2]

Uh. Sorry. The Italian for HP (in Italian "punti ferita")

Ah! Okay, that makes sense.

If anything Hit Points are more definitive than ability scores!

 

[Umbran]

D&D is more than ability scores IMO.
The absence of a mechanic does not stop it being D&D.

Time for the Game of Theseus argument?

 

[Reynard]

Time for the Game of Theseus argument?

We can just make a list of games that ARE D&D and see how divergent they get. Obviously we have all the games with D&D on the vocer and in the name, but we also have:
Pathfinder 1E
Shadowdark
OSE and other reetroclones
and arguably Pathfinder 2E (not remastered) and maybe 13th Age.
There are a TON of games that aren't D&D but are inspired by it, from Stars Without Number to DCC.
What are the things that are common throughout all of those? Off the top of my head: the 6 ability scores, hit points, classes, levels. I don't know if they all have saving throws or AC.
This strongly suggests that no, not having ability scores, is probably not-D&D. Which is too bad but hey, them's the breaks.

 

[payn]

We can just make a list of games that ARE D&D and see how divergent they get. Obviously we have all the games with D&D on the vocer and in the name, but we also have:
Pathfinder 1E
Shadowdark
OSE and other reetroclones
and arguably Pathfinder 2E (not remastered) and maybe 13th Age.
There are a TON of games that aren't D&D but are inspired by it, from Stars Without Number to DCC.
What are the things that are common throughout all of those? Off the top of my head: the 6 ability scores, hit points, classes, levels. I don't know if they all have saving throws or AC.
This strongly suggests that no, not having ability scores, is probably not-D&D. Which is too bad but hey, them's the breaks.

Why is it bad? Why cant we have D&D and have other RPGs?

 

[Reynard]

Why is it bad? Why cant we have D&D and have other RPGs?

We can. But I imagine a world in which a new version of D&D could actually be different.

 

[AlViking]

Is it still D&D if you change the core assumptions and structures of the game but keep the label and the lore/visuals? There are many, many games that take a lot of inspiration from D&D because it's been around for so long and a lot of designers have at the very least played it. Doesn't make those other games D&D.

I also don't see much advantage to getting rid of ability scores. What's the goal and motivation to do so? What's the point of the question?

 

[Reynard]

I also don't see much advantage to getting rid of ability scores. What's the goal and motivation to do so? What's the point of the question?

The question was inspired by multiple threads in which people were talking about the balance inherent in rolling for stats versus point buy, or how very good luck or bad luck had impacts on whether a character was fun to play, etc... It occurred to me that if you just eliminated Ability Scores entirely, you could eliminate those potential problems and arguments as well.

 

[payn]

We can. But I imagine a world in which a new version of D&D could actually be different.

I get that, kind of. I've reached a point with D&D that its just got a certain look and feel. Like, if you turned Monopoly into a euro a lot of folks would think thats better. I'd say the essence of Monopoly would be gone along with the feel in that instance. Just make another game without abilities.