• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Hypothetical Question about future D&D

William Ronald

Explorer
Nikosandros said:
Yes, but in 3e ACs go much higher (or lower as the case may be) than they used to...

The strange thing about AC before 3.0 that a negative number was better than a positive number. I used to quip that the only thing that worked like D&D armor classes were stellar luminosity charts. (Where negative numbers are "brighter" than positive numbers.)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

SpiralBound

Explorer
[begin mega-post]
Originally Posted by Silverleaf:
Who knows what the next edition of D&D will look like? The only thing that's certain is that it will change to become appealing to the next generation...
Originally Posted by Digital M@
At this time in my life, I cannot see buying a bunch of new RPG books. When D&D 4E comes out, I will most likely buy a PHB and stop DMing and become a casual gamer.
These two sentiments bring to light an interesting aspect of roleplaying in general which, while not specifically ruleset issues, do directly affect how the rules will evolve over time.

Just who the customer is of any given "generation" of D&D is an important factor. While I'm sure that WoTC are happy that there were a lot of people who 'transitioned' from 2nd Ed. AD&D (including myself) to D20 3.5 I don't believe that the players from previous eras' were the primary target. Why not? Just look at the real life factors involved.

When we're younger (approx. 10 to 17 yrs) we have a lot of time and ample "willingness to play" for a game like D&D. This is also during those "formative years" that psycologists like to reference, thus we are also most likely to emotionally bond with the games of those time periods. As people age, their interests will change, and the activities you engage in and the amount of free time you have will usually decrease.

Once we are 18 to 25, many of us are in some form of secondary education, be it a university or some form of college or trade school. We're often also working as well. Some of us are even sidestepping the whole "higher learning" route alltogether and entering the workforce straight from school. We have more commitments, more demands on our time, and less time/willingness/opportunities/interest in games.

From our early 20's to our early 30's, some of us are getting married, starting families, advancing in or beginning our long-term careers, etc. Even less time, and even less opportunities to game. By now, many of the people who played D&D as children in their pre-teens are not even playing any more. I'm sure that many of us remember people whe used to play with during our childhood who no longer play this game. Those of us who do still play, do so because of a higher emotional commitment than those do don't. This higher commitment level usually expresses itself as having learned a great deal about the rules & settings we prefer to play, and often can be seen in the form of a mini-library of books supporting your hobby.

Those people who were playing a given ruleset as a 12 year old may or may not have a large library of books from that time period, but they will likely have several books from when they were 16-22, (this is assuming a person who is playing more or less consistantly from childhood to their 20's or 30's), around about your mid-20's to 30's, a lot of people have a lot of other financial concerns (car, house, kids, etc.) competing with maintaining this library with newer material in support of newer editions. They also have many other things competing for their time as well (career, family, other "adult" hobbies, etc.), which further reduces their inclination and ability to learn a new system, especially given the "emotional bank account" of fond childhood memories of games gone by using the system they already know and love.

Just how statisitcally likely is it that the 30something gamer is going to buy the latest edition of a game, as compared to the younger teenaged gamer just getting into the hobby? Now some of us continue to evolve with the changing times, however such people usually have a VERY high commitment level (usually D&D is their only hobby in that case), have lots of money, or sell off the older books in favour of (and to help fund the purchase of) the newer stuff. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the older gamers will simply stick with what they already have and only occassionally buy something new.

For example, I'm in my early 30's, married, with a time-demanding career. I started with AD&D 1st Ed in my teens and didn't own any books, I bought less than 10 books for AD&D 2nd Ed. during my early 20's, was considering the Players Option stuff, but then D20 3.0 came out. I now have a sizeable library of D20 3.5 books. When D20 4.0 comes out in 2+ years time, I will need significant justification to play it and even more to start buying the books for it. After all, I'm familar with D20 3.5, I've already invested significantly in it - already I've reached the point where I don't really "need" more material in order to play the game. I've effectively dropped "below the radar" as a highly likely revenue source for WoTC and the other D20 publishers out there.

Were I a publisher of RPGs I wouldn't be looking at my demographic as having the better return on my efforts. It would cost me far less to attract the younger player and that group would be more able to play and more likely to buy my products for a greater time period than the 30something "old school gamer" with a house, family, commitments, etc. Obviously, the companies out there must continue to focus on the younger generations of new gamers in order to survive. This forces the games we know and love to change over time, perhaps eventually becoming unrecognizeable even. I bet that gamers who only know Chainmail shake their heads bemusedly at D20 3.5 or even moreso its derivatives like Iron Heros, Arcana Evolved, True20, Spycraft, etc :)

What is D&D? Which version is the "true" version? Which elements are needed to make a given game "truely" still D&D? For the most part, to the people responsible for creating the published material for the current version of D&D these are irrelevent or patently obvious questions. Only what is currently being sold is D&D. Older versions WERE D&D, but they're sold now and neither those books nor even the audience that those books were aimed at are of primary concern now. Only the people who are today's customers matter. What type of game will THEY play? What kind of books, rules, settings, etc. will THEY buy? 2005 D20 and Eberron are so different from 1980's AD&D and Forgotton Realms that the contrast is staggering. The audience has changed and has different expectations than before, and thus just what "D&D" is has changed and will continue to change along with it.

One day, today's 12 year olds will be in their 30's, gathering together on some 2025 equivalent of EN World, and espousing about how today's D&D isn't the "true" D&D and is nothing like the old days of when D20 was still new... :D
[/end mega-post]
 

broghammerj

Explorer
SpiralBound said:
Just how statisitcally likely is it that the 30something gamer is going to buy the latest edition of a game, as compared to the younger teenaged gamer just getting into the hobby? Now some of us continue to evolve with the changing times, however such people usually have a VERY high commitment level (usually D&D is their only hobby in that case), have lots of money, or sell off the older books in favour of (and to help fund the purchase of) the newer stuff. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the older gamers will simply stick with what they already have and only occassionally buy something new.
[/end mega-post]

I would have to disagree with you. The teenaged gamer doesn't have expendible cash. They're too busy paying for upkeep on a car, dating, going to movies etc. Teenagers work now more than they ever have historically so they're time is limited.

Although I think you speak the mindset of Hasbro executives in reguards to recruiting new players....I thought I saw some demographics that the average age for a player is in their late 20s to mid 30s. That certainly represents the Enworld crowd. Someone with search capabilities can pull up some of the old polls. Now granted that may be skewed because we're on online internet community which has potential to exclude people. However, I think today's youth are far more internet savvy and have access to online websites. This has been my experience from playing online games and hearing a 12 yo at the other end of a microphone.
 


Turjan

Explorer
broghammerj said:
I would have to disagree with you. The teenaged gamer doesn't have expendible cash. They're too busy paying for upkeep on a car, dating, going to movies etc. Teenagers work now more than they ever have historically so they're time is limited.
I think this point is completely wrong. Teenagers have vast amounts of disposable income and are the target group of expensive advertising campaigns. Most importantly, they spend most of this money on spare time activities. Sure, there's partying and traveling competing with gaming, but that's often an 'either or' decision made for different reasons.
 


Turjan

Explorer
Rasyr said:
teenager's disposable income == parent's paycheck???
Pretty much so :D. If I look at the two children of my best friends, that's definitely true. They have more money to spend on leisure activities than I have.
 

Kanegrundar

Explorer
If D&D became something completely different as it is now, like going point-based or freeform roleplay, then I'm out. They can have their bastardized "D&D" and I'll go play with my old books and be a happy gamer much in the way that Diaglo is right now! ;)

Kane
 

SpiralBound

Explorer
Kanegrundar said:
If D&D became something completely different as it is now, like going point-based or freeform roleplay, then I'm out. They can have their bastardized "D&D" and I'll go play with my old books and be a happy gamer much in the way that Diaglo is right now! ;)

Kane

That's pretty much what the point of my mega-post was all about. My pet theory that as your average gamer ages, they either drop out of roleplaying alltogether, or they stick with what they are familar and comfortable with - letting the newer stuff slide on by to be bought up by the younger newb gamers.

Obviously, there will always be those who will continuously refresh their game, adopting the newer versions no matter what, but I don't think thay they are the majority. Just how many 40-50+ year old roleplayers are there out there? (as in those who started in their teens or 20s 30+ years ago and are still gaming) Furthermore, of those "survivors" from the original D&D era, how many of them are playing the latest version of D20 D&D?

Of course, any such people *HERE* are likely of the group who have been consistantly updating their game with the times, but I'm referring to the rpg community in general which would include the dragonfoot crowd, plus gamers who (gasp!) :) don't visit rpg web sites or even use the internet. I bet that of the group of people who were gamers 30 years ago, only a very small percentage of them are still gamers. Furthermore, of those who still game, I'd suspect that most of them aren't as interested in D20 as your average pre-teen gamer is. I assert that this is a natural progression that the majority of gamers go through and thus the rpg industry perforce must keep catering to the leading edge of new gamers.
 

SpiralBound

Explorer
broghammerj said:
I would have to disagree with you. The teenaged gamer doesn't have expendible cash. They're too busy paying for upkeep on a car, dating, going to movies etc. Teenagers work now more than they ever have historically so they're time is limited.

By all means, feel free to disagree. I didn't mean to imply that I "know all" and am 100% correct. It's just my personal theory. I've known teenagers with considerable money to waste on "non-essential" persuits, but of course not all teenagers are alike in all places of the world. No doubt in some areas the average teenaged gamer doesn't have any money and isn't able to amass their rpg collection until their 20s. Either way, the detail of which time period they buy their books in wasn't the primary thrust of what I was talking about. My primary point was regarding how gamers transition through stages of "connectedness" to the currently selling version of D&D as they age, and eventually drop away from the leading edge to the evolution of the rpg system, ceasing to be a majority of the actively purchasing rpg consumerbase.

Although I think you speak the mindset of Hasbro executives in reguards to recruiting new players....I thought I saw some demographics that the average age for a player is in their late 20s to mid 30s. That certainly represents the Enworld crowd. Someone with search capabilities can pull up some of the old polls. Now granted that may be skewed because we're on online internet community which has potential to exclude people. However, I think today's youth are far more internet savvy and have access to online websites. This has been my experience from playing online games and hearing a 12 yo at the other end of a microphone.

Hmmm.... So would you theorise that your average 12 year old gamrer gets hooked on the system prevalent at that time in their life, ends up buying it or the very next version when they hit their 20's and have more money, and then drop off in numbers (at least in terms of affecting rpg sales) in their late 30s?
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top