I didnt let a PC die

[Alaska Roberts]

OK, they had been fighting all night, heal, fight, heal, fight, and so on. The Paladin of the group has a wopping 12 points on him and keeps going, took a serious blast from an exploding frost worm and boom DEAD.

The cleric cant resurect, no potions, etc....
I let the Cleric and and Paladin make God calls (yes I still use them), the cleric makes it, so I charge him a ton of spell slots and bring the PC back to 1 HP, then make him heal him too. Overall I know I should have let him die, but he is a great PC. (Drow Paladin, great background and overall player)

Question is, did I screw up? Will they always think they can get away with anything? Or can I still control my game?

Grill me I deserve it

Alaska

 

[Black Omega]

What's the roll on a God Check?

The main thing is it's a little deux ex machinie Depending on the circumstance you could have made the party do a quest or something along those lines to bring him back, or to repay getting a higher level cleric to resurrect the Paladin.

If the PC's now expect you'll do this for them anytime someone dies, you may have troubles.

 

[reapersaurus]

Let me be one who doesn't agree with the prevalent opinion on these boards:
that it's "better to kill the PC than it is to risk losing the preciouos feeling of danger and mortal threat in the campaign."

BS.

For me (and my group), I'd consider it the DM's responsibility to look out for my PC if I was following the unwritten script of heroic fantasy.

Let's be realistic - I'm not playing a board game, here, where chance rules all.
My group's playing a fantasy-recreation game, where we take on the roles of heroic figures in an attempt at epic-style fantasy.

It would NOT do if the heroes died while battling a 'chump' monster.

That's an extreme viewpoint, and not common, but i just want to put it out there that that IS a style of play, that I believe has more people than will admit playing that way.

I say "Great job!" to you as a DM, for recognizing that that's the way your party prefers to play, and for going out of your way to make it fun and match the expectations of the players.

Many DM's seem to care more about their precious interpretation of what a "real campaign" is than making sure their players have FUN on game day.

 

[Eben]

I agree for the most part. But don't forget that a tragi death can be as heroic as the grandest quest.
Classic example: Boromir. Dying a good death can be as fulfilling as fulfilling the quest in heroic fantasy.
But in the end: the gamemaster is always right.

 

[Black Omega]

Let me be one who doesn't agree with the prevalent opinion on these boards:
that it's "better to kill the PC than it is to risk losing the preciouos feeling of danger and mortal threat in the campaign."

Even if the players want this feel of danger? Even if the players only feel heroic if there is a chance, however small, that their PC's could suffer mortal harm? Not like mortal harm means the character is gone in most DnD games anyway...

For me (and my group), I'd consider it the DM's responsibility to look out for my PC if I was following the unwritten script of heroic fantasy.

That's one way to do it, certainly. Personally, the GM already looks after the world, the NPCs and the badguys. I think I can handle looking after my own character.

My group's playing a fantasy-recreation game, where we take on the roles of heroic figures in an attempt at epic-style fantasy.

We have some very different ideas of what epic-style fantasy is, I'm afraid. Gilgamesh, Beowulf, Roland, Achilles, there are endless examples of death in epics. Some of the deaths for the Elven Kings in the Silmarillion are breathtaking and so heroic.

That's an extreme viewpoint, and not common, but i just want to put it out there that that IS a style of play, that I believe has more people than will admit playing that way.

This I agree with. There are quite a few styles of play and no one style is right, it's what you and the group you run for enjoy. I have a friend who runs for a group where there is never any PC death period. I wouldn't enjoy combats in that game much, personally, but it works fine for them.

I say "Great job!" to you as a DM, for recognizing that that's the way your party prefers to play, and for going out of your way to make it fun and match the expectations of the players.

I can only guess if he was certain of all that he would not have been asking "Did I mess up?" If he enjoys and they enjoy then he's doing his job right.

Many DM's seem to care more about their precious interpretation of what a "real campaign" is than making sure their players have FUN on game day.

I disagree. The point -is- for the players to have fun but many players are perfectly cool with the idea of real threats to their characters. Personally, if I know the GM will never kill my character even if I do something stupid, there's little point to the battle. A DM willing to let PC's die doesn't have to be a bad DM or on a power trip, it's a perfectly valid way to play.

And back to the original question...
Question is, did I screw up? Will they always think they can get away with anything? Or can I still control my game?

Grill me I deserve it

Reaper did raise a few questions worth asking. 'Did I screw up.' Only if it hurt the game. If the players want some threat of dying, even if they can be raised by a spell later, then you possibly made it a little too easy. Probably best to ask what their expectations are though. Know your players.

For me the main question is, why do it with a diety intervention when it sounds like the Pasladin could have been raised later by a NPC cleric with that used as an adventure hook. Was there some reason he had to be brought back then and there?

 

[Tsyr]

Actualy, I agree with Reaper... The fun is in playing out the story for my group and I. Do players have situations where they could die? Sure. But, unless they did something to put themselves in undue danger, it's probably unlikely.

I actualy have a few cinimatic rules at times however that prevent some of the deaths that would otherwise happen... Anytime a player would be killed with a blow, he gets a roll to shrug off a tiny fraction of the damage, for example. This allows for the "two combatants, beaten and bloody, both knowing the next hit will probably kill them" situation that you seen in movies and anime. Things like that.

Actualy, I find I have quite a few player deaths, really. But in many cases, a PC brought it upon himself in order to die _heroicly_. There's nothing heroic in getting critical-hit by a random "mook" goblin. There _is_ something heroic in holding back a hoard of goblins in a passageway so that the rest of the party can escape. Deaths like this... cinimatic, heroic, emotional... these are the deaths I strive for in my games. Not "oops, I rolled a fumble and slipped while walking along a narrow path, so I fell and broke my neck" type deaths (That actualy happened in a game I played in to my character).

Others may not that I have previously espoused a "let the dice fall where they may" attitude. This is still true, in part... I do play with what's rolled... it's just that I have "contingencies" in place (such as the last-chance check)... A very strict "let the dice fall where they may" attitude is employed only in the case of munchkins, which I thankfully have none of at this point. In other cases, well-played characters have a number of chances to avoid death. They still can die, mind you, it's just much harder.

Of course, "heroic" villan characters also have all these chances... "mook" characters don't, though.

I guess in the end, the "Did I do anything wrong?" question is best left to your players, though, not us. We can only tell you what we do, what we think... which in the end is meaningless. It's just our views. The real question is did your players enjoy the story continuing without undue hiches, or do they prefer to loose characters now and then? Talk with them and find out.

 

[Sinklar]

Don't be stupid!

Without going into a lot of detail, I generally do my best to keep my players one step away from death. The fear is always there, but "somehow" they always manage to pull through. Characters still die every now and then, but it is usually because they die doing something heroic or selfish.

BUT, don't do anything stupid when I'm the DM. Don't wander off by yourself in the lich's stronghold because of the pretty lights down the hall. You WILL become something's midnight snack.

 

[Orco42]

If the character died I would not have had the god call. The party then could pool their gold and get him raised.

But more than likely I would have fudged a roll if the character was being brave (and not being stupid).

I don't like killing players due to bad luck. But if the player makes a bad desicion they are toast.

 

[Piratecat]

I've played in a campaign where the DM was hesitant to kill people. In fact, he would go out of his way and pull deux ex machinas to make sure that we lived. It was, without question, the most frustrating and disappointing campaign I've ever played in.

Unlike Reapersaurus, I like the omni-present possibility of death. I don't like the idea of feeling coddled, of knowing I can do something asinine or stupid and get away with it. The knowledge that no one will actually end up killing the PC ends up completely destroying my suspension of disbelief, reducing the game to a metagame exercise in tedium.

That being said, I've pulled punches on low-level PCs before, and I'm sure I've had them pulled on me in games that are otherwise exciting. Being a good DM is all about knowing your timing, knowing that a weenie monster does not make for a heroic death. I think it's the pattern of DM intervention that makes the big difference. One time? Not a big deal, especially if you make the occurrance epic. Lots of times? Not my preference.

Alaska, if you want to have some fun, play up the fact that this is a unique event. The paladin was raised directly by the God's action, right? Then every cleric of the God throughout the entire world received a vision of this happening. The paladin and cleric are suddenly instant celebrities. Strangers walk up to him asking him to raise their family members, enemies of the faith target him for assassination because he's such a well-known symbol of the God's power, and people who think he's a living saint want to display him like a zoo animal. This will drive home the point that the occurrance, and the PCs, are unique - and very, very special.

- Piratecat

 

[Rashak Mani]

Hhhmmm I am a fan of the Death is Death kind of Game... players become ever so careful when they are aware that Raising the Dead is an almost impossible thing... if at all...

You could have made an "interference" by your God before... the Paladin died AFTER killing the Frost Worm ... so his Patron God could have cast a Protection from Cold spells instants before the blast for his Heroics... so he was saved from dying and not the much more complicated Resurrection. He was Heroic yes ?

Roleplay the coming of the Celestial Agent who protects him... with a sermon afterwards about not fighting suicidally and praising his continuous service... Once in a while this reinforces the players commitment to his religion and faith.

You should make him "pay" for his life now... either a good magic item or wealth was "taken" ... Quests and Debts for certain could be incurred from this Raise´R´us God. Maybe leave him weak and bad shape for a while... just make a point... or even better put some kind of the god´s mark or symbol phsically on him... he was saved by the god after all ... just dont let it go for free... dont make it a habit...

Anyway most players Roleplay their happiness of the coming back of a dead friend better than the grief of having a PC die.