I don't get the arguments for bioessentialism

[doctorbadwolf]

What bothers me is WOTC trying to have it both ways.

If Wood Elves are fast because of their biological or supernatural nature, which they have said is the case it’s species traits, then you cannot also say that the stats for species in the PHB only represents exceptional individuals.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

and are unsuited to ordinary work.

That seems like a super weird assumption. Why?

 

[Mannahnin]

That seems like a super weird assumption. Why?

Because being an adventurer is super dangerous and part of the setting is the assumption that people wouldn't do it if they didn't have to?

Sorry, I do need to correct myself- the game calls for EITHER being unable to work a normal job OR having a motivation which drives you to fight the Nightmare incursions. I think both is even better, but that's my aesthetic preference.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Thinking through the first 34 pages of this thread, I think the most salient point was made by @Umbran: if culture can explain/provide whatever explanations we need for groups of sentient beings to "be" a certain way, why do we even need bioessentialism? What purpose does it serve to be able say, "No, it's not just that they were raised in a culture that taught them that, it's intrinsically who they are"?

 

[The Firebird]

Thinking through the first 34 pages of this thread, I think the most salient point was made by @Umbran: if culture can explain/provide whatever explanations we need for groups of sentient beings to "be" a certain way, why do we even need bioessentialism? What purpose does it serve to be able say, "No, it's not just that they were raised in a culture that taught them that, it's intrinsically who they are"?

If it is all cultural, why not have everyone be human?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Thinking through the first 34 pages of this thread, I think the most salient point was made by @Umbran: if culture can explain/provide whatever explanations we need for groups of sentient beings to "be" a certain way, why do we even need bioessentialism? What purpose does it serve to be able say, "No, it's not just that they were raised in a culture that taught them that, it's intrinsically who they are"?

Well, if you want do that, then you do not need to have non-human sapients at all.

I think the point of non-humans are that they are some way different than humans, otherwise they would just be humans!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Because being an adventurer is super dangerous and part of the setting is the assumption that people wouldn't do it if they didn't have to?

Sorry, I do need to correct myself- the game calls for EITHER being unable to work a normal job OR having a motivation which drives you to fight the Nightmare incursions. I think both is even better, but that's my aesthetic preference.

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I mean, plenty of people actively seek out dangerous challenges without being bad at normal life. I’d go so far as to say that enjoying fear and near-death adrenaline highs is a normal human trait. Not universal, but certainly fairly common.

We see the aurochs and think, “Bet I could jump on it’s back and stab it to death” and even if twenty of our friends die trying, if we manage it and survive we then go on to have a dozen babies because everyone in the tribe thinks we are cool as heck.

Like a species that historically has often designed actively less protective armor than they are capable of making because it looked better, isn’t staying home because the high-reward-high-glory-protect-your-neighbors job is dangerous.

A blind man climbed Mt Everest. Climbing that death trap is so much more foolish than fighting monsters, but I wouldn’t for a second assume that everyone who has done it couldn’t work an office job or as a mechanic. That would be absurd.

 

[Scribe]

at purpose does it serve to be able say, "No, it's not just that they were raised in a culture that taught them that, it's intrinsically who they are"?

Provide an additional layer of abstraction.
Demonstrate that yes actually Elves are functionally different from Dwarves.
Show correctly that the strongest 2 foot tall halfling will never be as strong as the strongest Goliath, no matter where they were born, or who raised them.

It shows, the fantastical ancestry options are fantastical.

 

[Cadence]

Thinking through the first 34 pages of this thread, I think the most salient point was made by @Umbran: if culture can explain/provide whatever explanations we need for groups of sentient beings to "be" a certain way, why do we even need bioessentialism? What purpose does it serve to be able say, "No, it's not just that they were raised in a culture that taught them that, it's intrinsically who they are"?

I'm not sure that "some cultures are better than others" is particularly better? (Some types of training or career leading to certain things though... ).

 

[TiQuinn]

Well, if you want do that, then you do not need to have non-human sapients at all.

I think the point of non-humans are that they are some way different than humans, otherwise they would just be humans!

It seems that as soon as you go down the road of giving ability score bonuses (or penalties) within a class based system where one class derives more benefits from being strong, or more benefits from being smart, you start to get justifying verbiage that says "Wood Elves are naturally graceful and quick and make excellent thieves and rangers."