I Hate Bards

[malraux]

I'm not upset. And I do reward creativity. I didn't give them xp because he just did it without talking with his party members. The Bard class has a lot of skills like this. I can't allow it once. THen I'd have to allow it almost every time. He's big on constitency.

I find that creativity and rules exploits are polar opposites. Finding a particular exploit and then repeatedly abusing it is not just not creative, but actively negates creativity.

This sounds more like a player problem than a character problem. My solution would be give the player the option of either lots of consistency, but little allowance for creativity, or allow lots of creativity but with the caveat that just because something worked previously doesn't mean that it'll work again.

 

[Iconik]

Yeah. He's said in the past that he wants consistency. I agreed with him.

OK. So my party and I are still at odds about this. Let's sum it up.

1. Victim of the Feywild is a teleport. Teleports require line of sight but NOT line of effect. He had neither so it doesn't matter. He also needs to see the origin and the destination.

2. Restrained cannot be "fixed" by any forced movement what so ever.

Correct?

 

[Herschel]

Bards aren't problems, the people who play bards are.

(hides character sheet of level 2 prescient bard)

What others have said is correct. Line of sight (or line of effect) issues stop many powers from working as wished.

 

[Riastlin]

Yeah. He's said in the past that he wants consistency. I agreed with him.

OK. So my party and I are still at odds about this. Let's sum it up.

1. Victim of the Feywild is a teleport. Teleports require line of sight but NOT line of effect. He had neither so it doesn't matter. He also needs to see the origin and the destination.

2. Restrained cannot be "fixed" by any forced movement what so ever.

Correct?

1. You are correct.

2. Technically yes. However, IIRC teleport isn't considered forced movement (or rather is considered its own breed of forced movement). I believe that a restrained creature CAN be teleported away, but Majestic Word's slide for instance could not slide the PC away from the Restraint. I'd have to double check on whether you can free a restrained PC by using force movement to move the restraining creature away. In the case of the Purple Worm though I would say that PC could not get out regardless because of the walls of the stomach. If the worm moves, so does the PC. If the restraint is just from a monster grabbing the creature (I believe some monsters restrain with a grab) then I am not sure.

 

[Herschel]

Yeah, he could teleport out if he could see where he was going, but he couldn't.

 

[Iconik]

OK. So my friend is txting me saying we're wrong. He says you don't have to see origin. Only target. And since the target was the worm and not the guy in the stomach it counts.

I say that he HIT the worm but the effect of the power couldn't of hit the guy in the stomach because he didn't have LoS. He also states that the one being teleported doesn't need to see the destination. Only the teleporter does.

 

[spiderboy4]

I think the hang up falls on the actual power itself. Victim of the feywild targets one creature. In this case the purple worm who was swallowing a creature.

On a hit, one or two allies within 5 squares of the worm teleport to a square adjacent to the worm, thus ending any restraining effects by definition of the teleport rules.

Only the user of the power has to see the destination square but not the origin, only the target. The only question is does the swallowed creature somehow now become the target of the power at this time or is it an sorta aftereffect of the hit on the worm?

 

[Iconik]

^One of my PCs ladies and gents.

 

[malraux]

OK. So my friend is txting me saying we're wrong. He says you don't have to see origin. Only target. And since the target was the worm and not the guy in the stomach it counts.

I say that he HIT the worm but the effect of the power couldn't of hit the guy in the stomach because he didn't have LoS. He also states that the one being teleported doesn't need to see the destination. Only the teleporter does.

Even though he hit the worm, the power cannot penetrate into the stomach because creatures in the stomach don't have line of effect into the stomach. The power cannot penetrate in.

Moreover, your player is being a dick. The point of all that text in the worm's stomach text is that the only way out is for the character to get out himself. If he values consistency, then the point is that being inside the stomach really really sucks and you have to climb back out.

Edit: To put into a more general framework, unless you don't have to, you always have to evaluate line of effect. So when the power says "You can teleport one or two allies within 5 of the target" you always have to append "that you have line of effect to." Since a purple worm's stomach blocks line of effect, you cannot teleport allies from out of it.

edit the 2nd:Well, its probably more that you need line of effect from the target (ie the purple worm) to the one or two allies. Regardless, the purple worm itself does not have line of effect to its stomach ("no creature has line of sight or line of effect to the swallowed target.")

 

[The Human Target]

I think the moral of the story is- You can't let people get away with murder and then complain when they do it.

Its not the class's fault.