I hope I'm wrong about this

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

While this is a good method (and my personal method), I was more interested in what XP system would be best for the game itself, that is, for those DMs without the experience to award XP on their own.

I agree with you here.
But the problem is not the experience point system. It is the CR system itself. When creatures of vastly different threat/challenge to a "well-balanced" party are deemed to be the same CR the newbie DM will not learn a very good lesson.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

From what I've seen, it works well enough for me. There's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all XP award system, and DM judgement will always be necessary to handle situations that go outside the boundaries of what's assumed in the DMG tables. That doesn't mean CRs are bad, or the rules of thumb provided are unworkable in the majority of situations.

What you stated does not mean that CRs are bad.
But the steady failure of the CRs to be accurate is a serious problem.

To be fair, the system may work fine with the following constraints:

Avoid class levels

Avoid monster advancement

Avoid large groups of monsters

But the system indicates that it works for these items, when it really does not. Or at best is hit or miss.

Again, if you claim CRs work fine, how do you respond to the first post in this thread?

CRGreathouse,
I suppose that if you assume that newbie DMs will stick to the very basics, the system may work as a training tool at that level

 

[hong]

Again, if you claim CRs work fine, how do you respond to the first post in this thread?

Apply DM judgement. DM judgement is _always_ going to be required for adjudicating XP awards, and the DMG itself says as much.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Agreed.

But that does not mean the CR system works. That is my only point.

 

[hong]

Agreed.

But that does not mean the CR system works. That is my only point.

It also does not mean the CR system:

is completely disposable

or

is a complete failure

or

does not come close to working

which is my point.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Well, as to completely disposable, it clearly is. Many people play without it and lose nothing at all from the experience. Thus it is completely disposable.

Not even really an opinion.

The other two are certainly my opinion. But I have stated my basis and have not seen any real dispute of my claims.

I find the system to be a total failure that does not come close to working. I am sorry if you don't like my opinion.

Present some evidence that my opinion is misplaced and I may change.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

When I advance a monster by HD (not by class level) Usually, I re-assign CR using Monster Creation rules in Dragon #276. As a rule of sum, divide average HP by 13.5. I think you can find more detailed guidance for this rule on Jamis Black's Creature Catalogue page, which is hosted by this site.

I have not tried this alternate. I'll look into it.

Thanks

 

[Gez]

The funniest advancement is for the Assassin Vine. I don't remember, but the bigger one had a CR above the one of the Tarrasque, IIRC.

Shin Okada, Jamis Buck keep a Random Generator page. The Creature Catalog is managed by Scott Greene (look for someone named Grazzt on these boards) and Erica Balsley (codename DnDChick).

As for myself... I completely dissed the "XP for defeating monsters" system, and just assign XP for story award, roleplaying, danger, ideas... But not on a monster-by-monster basis, rather on a general feeling. The XP I give is also influenced by the level I want the PC to reach (or not reach yet), so it's maybe not always "fair".

Otherwise, I think the CR system (as well as the EL system) is an improvment over what existed before. In AD&D 2, you only had flat experience worth for monsters. Sometimes, by the way, they were very discutable -- for example, a red abishai devil was worth about as much as a hive mother beholder. Let me tell you, offing an abishai was easier, less frightening, and less dangerous task than offin a hive mother.

 

[hong]

Well, as to completely disposable, it clearly is. Many people play without it and lose nothing at all from the experience. Thus it is completely disposable.

By that (specious) argument, a ruleset is completely disposable as well. Lots of people play freeform or rules-light, and have a good time. Therefore, all the 3E/d20 paraphernalia we talk about on this here bboard are completely disposable too.

I find the system to be a total failure that does not come close to working. I am sorry if you don't like my opinion.

Present some evidence that my opinion is misplaced and I may change.

In my experience, the CR system has worked quite well for me. But then I don't usually fight 19HD balors, or balors with 1 fighter level.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Oh come on.

It is your arguement that is getting highly specious.

I don't use the CR system and yet I am clearly without any doubt playing D&D 3E. To compare that to a rule-less freeform is just absurd.

You could be trying to show that the CR system works, but instead you hide behind bad analogy.