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D&D 5E I hope this isn't 5E...(art that screams "not this, not this!")

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Sunseeker

Guest
I don't like Wayne Reynold's art in the slightest, but I'm not sure why people are objecting to a barbarian having a giant weapon. As far as a lot of his art goes, this is probably one of his better pieces(which isn't saying much, but still). Certainly it's not realistic, but neither are dragons or fireballs.
 

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TwinBahamut

First Post
Not quite:

<definitions removed>

I bet most non-fans of the stuff associate by art style, especially the owl eyes and other impossible anatomy features.
There is no point whatsoever in quoting a dictionary definition unless you cite the dictionary. There is also the issue that dictionaries are sometimes an awkward thing to cite at all for this sort of thing, but that's different matter...

Regardless, you have absolutely no room to claim that anything of those lists is not anime, even if you accept the unsourced definitions you have provided. Simply put, you are using those definitions incorrectly. You read one definition, have taken an overly exaggerated interpretation of that definition, and have used that interpretation to exclude other works that also fall within other terms of that clear definition. In other words, you are using a dictionary incorrectly. A dictionary is actually the last tool you will ever want to use to say something does not fall within a word's definition, actually.

Everything [MENTION=6670763]Yora[/MENTION] listed in that post (save Daffy Duck and Obelisk, of course) is anime. I also find it rather amazing that your definition of anime is such that it excludes a wide variety actual anime productions (that clearly share the central stylizations of anime!), yet includes something that anime fans would never regard as anime. You may simply want to reconsider your perception of what "anime style" is supposed to mean.
 

SKyOdin

First Post
A particular style is usually what western people not into the subject associate anime with. Seems even in the anime community, there isn't a clear cut view as to whether to go by style, including western "anime" art, or not.

I bet most non-fans of the stuff associate by art style, especially the owl eyes and other impossible anatomy features.
Except that anime is defined by a very specific quality that all anime share, including those examples Yora gave that you seem to be reluctant to call anime: relatively simple coloring and linework that puts a greater emphasis on emotion and expression than on detail. That simple quality is something that almost all anime/mange art shares to one extent or another. Manga and anime art has evolved in an environment that emphases timely deadlines over elaborate detail-work. An average manga creator is expected to produce about twenty pages of black and white comic a week, every week for years on end. You can't accomplish that with highly detailed drawing.

This is one of the factors that immediately disqualifies Wayne Reynold's art from being described as anime: the guy loves lots of detail and complex line-work. While most anime art tends to be clean, simple, and minimal, Wayne Reynolds likes his art to be full of tiny detail and complex shading. The very fact that Reynolds uses shading to define jaw and cheekbones instantly distinguishes his art from anime.
 

Yora

Legend
I assume the reason for the confusion is warcraft, which has adopted a style that is both anime-style and very blocky. Take the anime-influence away, and you are pretty much at Reynolds.
 

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
For my D&D art, I want images that make me think of heroic adventure and plot hooks I want to steal. I don't want images that make me first think of sex or cartoons. Pretty straightforward for me. In jbear's post, the only image that passes that test is the 4th one.
 

Lwaxy

Cute but dangerous
Everything @Yora listed in that post (save Daffy Duck and Obelisk, of course) is anime. I also find it rather amazing that your definition of anime is such that it excludes a wide variety actual anime productions (that clearly share the central stylizations of anime!), yet includes something that anime fans would never regard as anime. You may simply want to reconsider your perception of what "anime style" is supposed to mean.

Yet his last examples are totally different from the first. Are there actual names for different anime styles if this is all considered to fall in the same broad category? Because even my son's gf sis who claims she watches a lot of anime (and does a lot of anime drawings, out of her ears actually) just told me she wouldn't include those examples. Japanese cartoons, yes, anime, no. She wasn't even sure if this could be from a Japanese production though.
 

Lwaxy

Cute but dangerous
Except that anime is defined by a very specific quality that all anime share, including those examples Yora gave that you seem to be reluctant to call anime: relatively simple coloring and linework that puts a greater emphasis on emotion and expression than on detail.

Now that you point that out... yup, I can see it. Emotions in cartoons are harder for me to recognize than in other art or in real people so I missed out on that completely.

This is one of the factors that immediately disqualifies Wayne Reynold's art from being described as anime: the guy loves lots of detail and complex line-work. While most anime art tends to be clean, simple, and minimal, Wayne Reynolds likes his art to be full of tiny detail and complex shading. The very fact that Reynolds uses shading to define jaw and cheekbones instantly distinguishes his art from anime.

Yeah.. I can see the difference. Would that mean that all those people who do anime art and pay so much attention to all the details are actually far off?
 

TwinBahamut

First Post
Yet his last examples are totally different from the first. Are there actual names for different anime styles if this is all considered to fall in the same broad category? Because even my son's gf sis who claims she watches a lot of anime (and does a lot of anime drawings, out of her ears actually) just told me she wouldn't include those examples. Japanese cartoons, yes, anime, no. She wasn't even sure if this could be from a Japanese production though.
That last picture is almost certainly from an anime. Just as anime production focus on easily animated characters, they also often have rather detailed and realistic backgrounds. This is for a lot of reasons, but mostly because you only need to draw a background once, but you can must draw characters more than 20 times for each second of animation. The needs differ, so that difference in style is something of an anime quirk. There is also the fact that the example given is clearly using a common anime/manga technique of being borrowed almost directly from photographic references. So, yeah, that's an anime background. Not all anime does this (and some western animation does too), but it happens a lot.

As for the names of styles found in anime... Such a list would probably be reduced down to the list of names of famous manga and anime artists, really. Osamu Tezuka (the god of anime) had his hugely influential style directly inspired by 60s-era Disney, Go Nagai has his wild style, Akira Toriyama has his very recognizable style, there's the Studio Ghibli/Hayao Miyazaki style, the Kishimoto twins share a distinct style, Kentaro Miura's style is very distinctive, and so on... There are broad similarities in styles designed to target different audiences (such as the shounen style used for action-packed boys' comics vs. the shoujo style for romantic girls' comics), but for the most part these similarities are better described as the influence of individual artists upon individual artists (with artists generally emulating the creators of the manga/anime that inspired them the most, like the Kishimoto siblings emulating Akira Toriyama).
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I don't like Wayne Reynold's art in the slightest, but I'm not sure why people are objecting to a barbarian having a giant weapon. As far as a lot of his art goes, this is probably one of his better pieces(which isn't saying much, but still). Certainly it's not realistic, but neither are dragons or fireballs.

Sorry shidaku, but this is a silly argument that comes up time and time again in different contexts but which makes no sense at all.

conflating ludicrous physical weaponry with magic spells and dragons doesn't make sense.

While D&D has dragons and fireballs, it also has gravity, buildings made out of stone or wood, and all kinds of things which are recognisable from the real world.

Within a fantasy context, we expect and allow for fireballs and dragons - it is part of the twist that makes things fantasy instead of realism. We ALSO expect that certain natural laws apply unless they are explicitly called out - thus someone using an ironing board as a sword is unrealistic in a way which dragons and fireballs are not.

Cheers
 

S

Sunseeker

Guest
Sorry shidaku, but this is a silly argument that comes up time and time again in different contexts but which makes no sense at all.

conflating ludicrous physical weaponry with magic spells and dragons doesn't make sense.

While D&D has dragons and fireballs, it also has gravity, buildings made out of stone or wood, and all kinds of things which are recognisable from the real world.

Within a fantasy context, we expect and allow for fireballs and dragons - it is part of the twist that makes things fantasy instead of realism. We ALSO expect that certain natural laws apply unless they are explicitly called out - thus someone using an ironing board as a sword is unrealistic in a way which dragons and fireballs are not.

Cheers

I do not accept, and will not get into an argument saying that in a fantasy universe that wizards and monsters can be completely unhindered by reality, while non-magical characters must be forced to abide by real-world physics. You can't have your cake and eat it to. Either the real-world laws of the universe apply to everyone, or they don't. This is the inherent issue I take with anyone who argues that classes don't need to be balanced, because basically they're arguing as you are, that the magic-types can break all the rules, but the non-magic types must be grounded in them.

I'm sorry, I'm just not interested in listening to an argument which is inherently contradictory.
 

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