D&D 5E I hope this isn't 5E...(art that screams "not this, not this!")

[Sunseeker]

We make allowances for things that are fantastic, yes. But we also have a sense of reality for things that are actually real or closely based on reality so that when they are out of proportion, they jar our senses in ways that our allowance for the fantastic can't always deal with. People may have differing thresholds for this.

EVERYTHING in a fantasy game is fantastic to some degree, what angers me about certain magical vs non-magical arguments is the fact that many seem to argue that X cannot be fantastical, AT ALL, while Y must be fantastical at all times.

It is most emphatically NOT a case of non-magical characters not getting nice things or even outlandish things. I'll admit that the sense of jarring unreality may feed the preference that non-magical characters not have the same reality bending powers as magic, but the issues are in no way the same thing.

I think it is an extension of that argument. People who take issue with "fantastical" non-magical characters tend to be the same ones who call for purposeful imbalance because magic means the rules don't apply.

I take issue with the idea that people want to ground their ideas of non-magical folk in reality, but then turn a blind eye when magic is involved. It's disingenuous, hypocritical and IMO damaging to the environment of the game.

 

[Savage Wombat]

But I have no wife...

Well that's a darn shame. They're very nice to have. And it's a lot of fun gaming with her, too.

 

[jbear]

Yes, please. This is driving me crazy. Elmore has some sexy art on his website, but he wasn't one for really bringing the sexy in his D&D days, aside from SnarfQuest, which was barely D&D related. Clyde Caldwell was the guy who drew all the half-naked women (including the lady pirate posted earlier).

Goldmoon by Elmore
Goldmoon by Caldwell

Laurana by Elmore
Laurana by Caldwell

I associate Elmore with some of the most positive female images in the D&D art of the 80s.

Laurana again.
Witch cover of Dragon Magazine.
Avalyne the Life-Giver.
The famous Aleena.
Basic Set Cleric

I can understand not liking the hair. It seems he used his wife as a model often. And sure, he has some T&A drawings on his site. A lot of artists do. But can we ditch the meme that Elmore's time at TSR was mainly spent in cheesecake? The man inspired my D&D playing sister to go into art!

http://membres.multimania.fr/skanlon/pictures/Larry_ELMORE/ElmorePortal.jpg
http://membres.multimania.fr/skanlon/pictures/Larry_ELMORE/Elmore05.jpg
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSh-b7JO-lOcpGy4uKPx6t59ekEAR4fzkjXVU1p4PO58URp1PVGy0pUSH_k
Why Larry Elmore?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iCR5sH1z_...rg1hyfgSVY/s1600/Image-RaistlinMad-Elmore.jpg
http://darkswordminiatures.com/mainwebsite_html/gallery/images/elmore_6_cover.jpg
http://www.scenicreflections.com/files/Larry_Elmore_Artwork_Wallpaper_x1tix.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L2DBF1Cew...tWgJY/s1600/dragoncon_poster_larry_elmore.jpg

enough?

 

[Lwaxy]

Well that's a darn shame. They're very nice to have. And it's a lot of fun gaming with her, too.

Indeed, my husband says he agrees

 

[Savage Wombat]

Indeed, my husband says he agrees

No, seriously, it's not the same thing at all. You should get a wife too - ask your husband about it.

 

[Lwaxy]

Well, I was about to at one point but she cheated on us... But that's completely getting off topic now

 

[jbear]

Still qualifies as porn in my book.



Usually, players pick a picture portraying the way their PCs normally are dressed like or act. At least I've hardly come across any other pictures.

It's possible some males don't dislike those images as much as they claim. I can't know that.



What's it to do with morals? Porn is not immoral to me, it just has no place in my games and I don't want D&D associated with it even remotely.



But you are not "around here" - sorry for the confusion, but "around here" is our gaming table. And we had plenty of discussions about fantasy/SciFi art for me to know that we are all more or less on the same page.

Sorry, now you are contradicting yourself to be argumentative.

"I don't want porn in my game because it has no place there! Oh, but I don't consider it immoral."

Weak.

If you meant 'pretty much everyone around here' as in the people you play with ... that removes even more weight from your arguments. The people you play with are most likely people you know, share culture with, have things in common with and hence will often be like minded regarding many things.

Pop your head out of your bubble of culture and you will find that your ideas and opinions are not so broadly shared.

And whatever your opinion may be, it does not create truth. The image of the elf is not porn. It is erotic. Or do you consider this porn as well?

http://www.eroti-cart.com/bmz_cache/e/e9c6e5d66eb7dd1535d81262e1452422.image.450x288.jpg

 

[Sunseeker]

Sorry, now you are contradicting yourself to be argumentative.

"I don't want porn in my game because it has no place there! Oh, but I don't consider it immoral."

Weak.

If you meant 'pretty much everyone around here' as in the people you play with ... that removes even more weight from your arguments. The people you play with are most likely people you know, share culture with, have things in common with and hence will often be like minded regarding many things.

Pop your head out of your bubble of culture and you will find that your ideas and opinions are not so broadly shared.

And whatever your opinion may be, it does not create truth. The image of the elf is not porn. It is erotic. Or do you consider this porn as well?

http://www.eroti-cart.com/bmz_cache/e/e9c6e5d66eb7dd1535d81262e1452422.image.450x288.jpg

To be fair to both sides of this argument, both of your main issues stem from trying to find existing artwork that accurately represents a player character. It's hard to find something that really screams "This is *PC name*!" without having extra baggage(such as being a night-elf from WoW or some such). I consider myself lucky that my fiance is an artist and does free simple commissions for characters, so people's characters are exactly as erotic or chaste as they want them to be.

Though I have to throw in my point of agreement with jbear on this subject in regards to certain character concepts. Players that are heavily nature-oriented as well as swashbucklers, rogues/thieves and other charismatic types often "show skin" as part of their character. Nature-inclined types don't see the need for it, as they are fine just the want nature intended. More charisma-y types often play up their good looks, from sorcerers to bards and thieves and swashbucklers, a gleaming smile, exposed cleavage or legs, manly chest-hair and a well-muscled physique go a long way towards how these characters are played in MANY situations.

While certain erotic imagery may take the issue a little far at times, it's unrealistic to claim that everyone needs to be bundled up like it's the middle of winter.

 

[billd91]

enough?

Cherry-picking a little cheesecake doesn't exactly prove his D&D art is mainly cheesecake. So no, I'd say it's not enough. I'd expect a random sampling and some understanding of the size of the body of work in question.

 

[Lwaxy]

Sorry, now you are contradicting yourself to be argumentative.

"I don't want porn in my game because it has no place there! Oh, but I don't consider it immoral."

Huh? No, I'm not contradicting myself. And I'm saying what I think, not being argumentative. I hate arguments and only do them when I feel I absolutely have to.

Why, in the world, should sex be in a family game other than maybe being briefly mentioned?

If you meant 'pretty much everyone around here' as in the people you play with ... that removes even more weight from your arguments. The people you play with are most likely people you know, share culture with, have things in common with and hence will often be like minded regarding many things.

Most of those people, with 4-5 exceptions, I only see in game, and we have a Korean, Indians, French and English speaking natives at the table, and at least 5 religions. So I don't think it is a cultural thing. I could be wrong though and those foreigners have already adapted so much to our culture that they just agree to everything. But then, that "culture" does barely exist, so what would they adapt to anyway?

Pop your head out of your bubble of culture and you will find that your ideas and opinions are not so broadly shared.

I'm not sure I have a bubble. I'm not sure i have a culture to call my own, for that matter.

And whatever your opinion may be, it does not create truth. The image of the elf is not porn. It is erotic. Or do you consider this porn as well?

http://www.eroti-cart.com/bmz_cache/e/e9c6e5d66eb7dd1535d81262e1452422.image.450x288.jpg

Err... no that is neither. That's a rather boring picture of ancient art more likely to fit for anatomy studies. She neither spreads her legs in a more than suggesting manner, nor does she reveal everything. She just stands there like a stick.