D&D 5E I just don't see why they even bothered with the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

[Demetrios1453]

I read what you wrote. I just don't value the same things you value. I've never had anyone play a Vengence Paladin at our table for instance. And we are having tons of fun with the Bladesinger.

You dismissed the lore as "fluffity fluff" and then said the lore lacked creativity. You clearly weren't just talking about mechanics, and were passing value judgements on all of it.

I've never had a Vengeance Paladin either - I've literally had every type of paladin other than it, including a new Oath of the Crown one. There are also a Swashbuckler, an Arcana Cleric, and a variant Tiefling in the campaigns I'm in as well. SCAG has already gotten a lot of use and shown a lot of value in the campaigns I'm in in just a few weeks.

Also @ Celtavian, don't judge the book by what it isn't - it's not a full fledged FRCS. It's a player's guide mainly for people who may be new to the setting (likely playing the hardcover adventures) and need some background and Realms-flavored ideas for their characters. You really can't compare a single release to the entirety of the 3e FR release schedule; wait until at least a few more books for the setting have come out. If there aren't any more, or if said releases actually are sub-par, then comparisons are apt...

 

[Corpsetaker]

That works for Paizo because they have different profit & sales expectations, and have their subscription model that gives them increased profits from each sale (by acting as a store) while also guaranteed sales.
And if its sustainable long term remains to be seen.

Let's take another look at this line.

Now before we begin, let me remind you that as long as I am making enough money to pay all the bills and everyone gets paid well then all is good. I do not jog on the profit treadmill nor do I expect unrealistic goals.

The above is why I will not have to worry about edition chasing as often because I am not on the profit treadmill like WoTc are.

Do you not see why their reasons for this new strategy are so much BS that I can smell it from here? They are trying to justify having to keep up with that ever profit increase by trying to basically tell us that coming up with a significant amount of product is a bad thing for D&D. It's textbook corporate speech.

 

[Jester David]

By that logic, all "disposable" money is going somewhere other than a game store, which means that they're in competition with absolutely everything. I suppose that's true, but in that regard Kickstarter is no different than anything else, and that makes the issue so broad as to be largely meaningless when talking about why FLGS's don't like Kickstarter specifically.

Um... yes. Game store do compete with every other business for disposable income, some directly and some indirectly.

However, Kickstarter is a more problematic competitor than other businesses for a few reasons.
First, because it's the manufacturer dealing with the customer, the price is better. Significantly so. There's a high incentive to back the Kickstarter in terms of value than wait and get something from the store.
Second is the convenience factor. You back a Kickstarter at home or on your phone and it comes to your house. You don't need to break your schedule to accommodate a visit to the store.
Third is the allure of Kickstarter exclusives and special edition products or accessories.

Not every company that starts a Kickstarter needs to. Many could have attempted standard distribution channels and a smaller print run. The Kickstarter allows for larger print runs and increased word-of-mouth. But expansion through stretch goals and similar backer rewards. It replaces and expands on the classic RPG publisher pre-order reliance.

 

[Corpsetaker]

Um... yes. Game store do compete with every other business for disposable income, some directly and some indirectly.

However, Kickstarter is a more problematic competitor than other businesses for a few reasons.
First, because it's the manufacturer dealing with the customer, the price is better. Significantly so. There's a high incentive to back the Kickstarter in terms of value than wait and get something from the store.
Second is the convenience factor. You back a Kickstarter at home or on your phone and it comes to your house. You don't need to break your schedule to accommodate a visit to the store.
Third is the allure of Kickstarter exclusives and special edition products or accessories.

Not every company that starts a Kickstarter needs to. Many could have attempted standard distribution channels and a smaller print run. The Kickstarter allows for larger print runs and increased word-of-mouth. But expansion through stretch goals and similar backer rewards. It replaces and expands on the classic RPG publisher pre-order reliance.

I think you're a bit off.

If everything a gamestore has to offer was on Kickstarter then I could see your point but it doesn't work that way. Kickstarter takes nothing away from a Gamestore because it was never there to begin with.

 

[Jester David]

Let's take another look at this line.

Now before we begin, let me remind you that as long as I am making enough money to pay all the bills and everyone gets paid well then all is good. I do not jog on the profit treadmill nor do I expect unrealistic goals.

The above is why I will not have to worry about edition chasing as often because I am not on the profit treadmill like WoTc are.

And I'd like a unicoorn that craps gold bricks,

It's unrealistic to expect WotC not to act like a business. They're not a charity. They're not doing it as a hobby.
They're also owned by a publicly traded company that expects certain profits with mandated growth. This is all well beyond the control of the CEO of WotC, let alone the control D&D brand team. That's not going to change.

It's also laughable given there was never a time when D&D was only about just paying the bills and not making a profit. It was always a business aimed at making a profit.

Do you not see why their reasons for this new strategy are so much BS that I can smell it from here? They are trying to justify have to keep up with that ever profit increase buy trying to basically tell us that coming up with a significant amount of product is a bad thing for D&D. It's textbook corporate speech.

I see two reasons for the strategies.
The first is trying to make the most of slashed budgets and limited staff. The D&D team likely has no control over staff and allotted budget and is just trying to keep the game alive with what they're given.
The second reason is trying to stop the edition treadmill and maintain the brand, to cease fracturing the audience. Continually making new editions is doing no favours to the audience or the game.

I sympathize with the first and agree with the second. While I wish the reduction of books was more by choice than by necessity, I cannot fault the end result.

What's the alternative? End the RPG altogether? That makes no one happy.

 

[garnuk]

I think you're a bit off.

If everything a gamestore has to offer was on Kickstarter then I could see your point but it doesn't work that way. Kickstarter takes nothing away from a Gamestore because it was never there to begin with.

Thats not how competitive markets and the entertainment industry work. Sorry.
Kickstarters do threaten in theory the ability for brick and mortar stores to stay in business. Just as Netflix caused Blockbuster Video to go out of business.

 

[Dire Bare]

Not every company that starts a Kickstarter needs to. Many could have attempted standard distribution channels and a smaller print run. The Kickstarter allows for larger print runs and increased word-of-mouth. But expansion through stretch goals and similar backer rewards. It replaces and expands on the classic RPG publisher pre-order reliance.

I've seen this sentiment come up a few times when folks are discussing Kickstarter. That certain companies (and/or certain projects) don't *need* to use Kickstarter, that they are somehow being disingenuous with their customers and unfairly competing with brick-and-mortar retailers by doing so.

I don't understand it.

Kickstarter is an excellent channel for products that would not otherwise get produced. It's also an excellent channel for products that *could* be brought to market in a different way (i.e. more traditional method), but Kickstarter provides certain marketing and cost-cutting advantages. Some Kickstarters push products that will only be available through that Kickstarter, or only available through online retailers. Who cares? Other Kickstarters push products that will eventually see sales through brick-and-mortar stores, and only get "kickstarted" on Kickstarter!

It is not a companies responsibility to have their products be available in brick-and-mortar FLGSs. Some companies feel that supporting FLGSs helps their own bottom line, but they are still under no obligation to support that retail pathway, it's a choice, neither *right* nor *wrong*. Kickstarter can be competitive with FLGSs, but so can Amazon and a whole host of other retail options. Who cares?

The only company that has an obligation to support brick-and-mortar retailers are the brick-and-mortar retailers. And changing business climates and new sources of competition are a part of life. FLGS owners can bemoan Amazon, Kickstarter, Paizo's subscription service, discount online retailers . . . . or they can find ways to be competitive.

I have supported many gaming-related Kickstarters, and will likely continue to do so. Most of my gaming purchases are made online, rather than at the FLGS. And it isn't because online is often cheaper and more convenient, although that bonus is nice. It's because I'm tired of the crappy customer service I have received at almost every FLGS I've ever patronized in several states across the USA. If my FLGS went under, I'd barely miss it.

When I walk into a store and overhear employees complaining about online competition, it doesn't sour me on online retail channels, it makes me not want to visit that FLGS again. Especially as the FLGS screwed up my last two orders and I'm waiting patiently to get helped while the employee is playing a game or visiting with friends rather than assisting the customer.

Hmmmm, I think I've gotten off-track a bit and devolved into a rant here, but . . . .

I love Kickstarter and the competition it brings to the marketplace! I'd totally love to see WotC do a D&D Kickstarter for a project that they wouldn't otherwise consider doing, like a giant 400-page Forgotten Realms Gazetter!

 

[Shasarak]

No, it really, really isn't. That's absolutely NOT how data should be gathered.

WotC seems to be relying on a lot of anecdotal feedback with their questionnaires. I guess they disagree.

 

[Shasarak]

First, I find it interesting that your three ideas for increasing profits were all done during 4e and didn't save that edition.

I dont know of any way I could have saved 4e.

 

[Corpsetaker]

Thats not how competitive markets and the entertainment industry work. Sorry.
Kickstarters do threaten in theory the ability for brick and mortar stores to stay in business. Just as Netflix caused Blockbuster Video to go out of business.

I'm afraid you are incorrect.

All the game stores in my area carry a small amount of D&D off in the corner somewhere. These shops do not rely on a single product to keep them in business.

The whole kickstarter thing threatening business is a myth and I will continue to say it unless you can provide some sort of evidence.