I just learned the Psionic rules, and I have questions.

[Oryan77]

I've always wanted to add Psionics to my campaign but the big book always intimidated me...a whole thick book on just one class?

So my friend came over the other day with a Psion he made in order for us to learn how to use Psionic characters. I just reviewed the Mind Flayer Psion from the Expanded Psionics book and used that to do a practice combat with his level 7 PC. It was just for fun and to learn how the rules work, so we weren't worried about the fight being fair.

The rules were pretty simple to learn. I liked it. From a DMs perspective though, it seems kind of pointless to use Psionic rules for an NPC Psionic character. It's a lot of work to accomplish basically the same affect with spells. It's easier to "pretend" a Mind Flayer is Psionic using his spell abilities rather than juggling & dealing with power points as a Psionic Mind Flayer.

Also, If he's just going to be used for 1 fight, then the DM would most likely dump his max power points into each attack. That's a little unfair vs a Psionic PC since he would be conserving his power points for later combats. I quickly realized how much hurting Mind Thrust does. It seemed extremely powerful for a 1st lvl power.

One question I have is, does a Psionic Mind Flayer's CR go up? I didn't see any CR adjustment under its statblock. But when comparing it to the core Mind Flayer from the MM, it has 3 times more "spell" attacks. So it gains a whole bunch more powers that can make it more powerful from buffs and attacks. I was wondering if I was overlooking something since I'm new at the Psionic rules. A Psionic Mind Flayer seems much more powerful than the MM Mind Flayer.

Also, what are ways for people to deal with a Psionic person? Say a Psionic criminal is thrown into jail in a big city. What do authorities do to deal with Psionic people in their custody? With casters you can bind their hands, take away their compenents/focuses, and blindfold them. I would imagine authorities have ways to keep these guys under their control right? I just don't know how

Overall I liked the class and I'm interested in the other versions of Psionic classes. I can see how this would be fun to play as a player. And the rules are so much easier than 2e rules were!

 

[RigaMortus2]

Also, If he's just going to be used for 1 fight, then the DM would most likely dump his max power points into each attack. That's a little unfair vs a Psionic PC since he would be conserving his power points for later combats. I quickly realized how much hurting Mind Thrust does. It seemed extremely powerful for a 1st lvl power.

If you feel it is unfair, then don't do it. Unless your style of play is DM vs. PCs where your intent is to use up all the NPCs resources in order to beat the PCs. Sure, you as DM might know (out of game) that the intent is for the mind flayer to lose, so he won't need his power points at a later date, so he should go "all out" on the PCs. But if you were playing that mind flayer as an actual being, you would not know/think that. You would think "Once I mop the floor with these people, I better have enough juice left for whatever other crazy adventurers I may encounter later in the day". Or he might think "I am out numbered here, let me put a hurting on them and flee and come back with reinforcements.

 

[Someone]

Say a Psionic criminal is thrown into jail in a big city. What do authorities do to deal with Psionic people in their custody? With casters you can bind their hands, take away their compenents/focuses, and blindfold them. I would imagine authorities have ways to keep these guys under their control right? I just don't know how

That's a classic. Among other possibilities, there are psionic restrains, antimagic cells and the trick of not letting the psion recover power points (by not letting him rest) or keeping his manifesting ability score below 10. Or you can go the "demolition man" route, fill a vat with Quitessence (see the psionic power) and throw the psion in.

 

[Nifft]

Also, If he's just going to be used for 1 fight, then the DM would most likely dump his max power points into each attack. That's a little unfair vs a Psionic PC since he would be conserving his power points for later combats.

It's been suggested that Psionic NPCs have between half to a quarter of their full power points available in any given encounter.

Also, what are ways for people to deal with a Psionic person?

Kill them and take their stuff. The whole imprisonment thing is a rather modern concept.

Cheers, -- N

 

[sirwmholder]

...Also, what are ways for people to deal with a Psionic person? Say a Psionic criminal is thrown into jail in a big city. What do authorities do to deal with Psionic people in their custody? With casters you can bind their hands, take away their components/focuses, and blindfold them. I would imagine authorities have ways to keep these guys under their control right?...

In a Second Edition game I played in the DM allowed Psionics but it was very confined and regulated. Wizards could read signs and omens to determine generally where and when a Psion would be born. They would dispatch a small group to either capture or kill the child. If the child was captured he spent his years under the eye of the Arcane Order. The Order constructed devices similar to cursed items and forced the young Psion to wear them. ( Late DM was a big X-Men fan so there were collars that suppressed all Psionic emanations. ) Occasionally a child would escape before capture to be raised in secret ( hence PC characters ). Thereafter, the Psion, had to remain hidden or on the run for the rest of the campaign. Party Wizards that belonged to the most powerful order of wizards, the Arcane Order, were charged with being ever vigilant against these "Mind Casters" and capture or kill them at all cost. Thieves would sell them out for substantial rewards. Priest would offer them sanctuary when they could (they believed Psions were chosen by the Gods for some great purpose) but other friends were few and far between.

Over all it's your game, the setting may be as brutal to a Psion as the one above or a Psion may be as common place as a Half-Orc Paladin. Either game has merit and it all comes down to presentation.

Hope this helps,
William Holder

 

[Corsair]

I quickly realized how much hurting Mind Thrust does. It seemed extremely powerful for a 1st lvl power.

It is also will negates, not half.

 

[moritheil]

The rules were pretty simple to learn. I liked it. From a DMs perspective though, it seems kind of pointless to use Psionic rules for an NPC Psionic character. It's a lot of work to accomplish basically the same affect with spells. It's easier to "pretend" a Mind Flayer is Psionic using his spell abilities rather than juggling & dealing with power points as a Psionic Mind Flayer.

Agree in many cases.

Also, If he's just going to be used for 1 fight, then the DM would most likely dump his max power points into each attack. That's a little unfair vs a Psionic PC since he would be conserving his power points for later combats. I quickly realized how much hurting Mind Thrust does. It seemed extremely powerful for a 1st lvl power.

It's all-or-nothing, though. IMC, those who didn't make the save generally had the hit points to soak it. Don't forget that the NPC has to pay to augment powers.

One question I have is, does a Psionic Mind Flayer's CR go up? I didn't see any CR adjustment under its statblock. But when comparing it to the core Mind Flayer from the MM, it has 3 times more "spell" attacks. So it gains a whole bunch more powers that can make it more powerful from buffs and attacks. I was wondering if I was overlooking something since I'm new at the Psionic rules. A Psionic Mind Flayer seems much more powerful than the MM Mind Flayer.

Usually, if players can't take out a mind flayer in a few rounds, they're toast anyhow. You're right in that the number of times per day one can use powers should make a difference, but practically speaking, I'm not sure how big that difference is vs. a typical group.

Also, what are ways for people to deal with a Psionic person? Say a Psionic criminal is thrown into jail in a big city. What do authorities do to deal with Psionic people in their custody? With casters you can bind their hands, take away their compenents/focuses, and blindfold them. I would imagine authorities have ways to keep these guys under their control right? I just don't know how

Overall I liked the class and I'm interested in the other versions of Psionic classes. I can see how this would be fun to play as a player. And the rules are so much easier than 2e rules were!

This is how I let my PCs get out of jail in the last campaign I ran, after they were captured. (Two of them were psionic, and the guards didn't realize it.)

 

[Oryan77]

But if you were playing that mind flayer as an actual being, you would not know/think that.

Good point. That's exactly how I should have been thinking about it in the first place. I should slap my hand for that.

not letting the psion recover power points (by not letting him rest) or keeping his manifesting ability score below 10.

Those are both excellent ideas. I like that a lot

It's been suggested that Psionic NPCs have between half to a quarter of their full power points available in any given encounter.

Ah ok then. So this concern of mine is pretty common. If I start using Psionic NPCs I'll definately keep this in mind.

Usually, if players can't take out a mind flayer in a few rounds, they're toast anyhow. You're right in that the number of times per day one can use powers should make a difference, but practically speaking, I'm not sure how big that difference is vs. a typical group.

Well the obvious difference that I knew was the fact that a Psionic Mind Flayer can throw up a couple of buffs and if I remember correctly, they were immediate actions. They were some pretty nice buffs. If the goal of a normal Mind Flayer & a Psion Mind Flayer was to just kill a PC, the Psion Mind Flayer had a huge advantage since he could buff and still do everything else that the normal Mind Flayer could do. The only thing I can think of is that depending on how you deal with his power points, maybe the Psionic saves aren't as good as the spell saves of the normal Mind Flayer?

 

[robberbaron]

I would have thought that, if an NPC was in fear for his life he would use whatever power he had to beat off his attackers/escape. He wouldn't think "I'll only use half my power as there could be another party along this afternoon". Likewise, he wouldn't just fire off half his points/spells during the day. Psions don't have to use power for everything.
Granted, if an NPC wizard was not expecting company then, perhaps, his spell loadout would be less than optimal for combat.

If you take away some of the power of an NPC you should lower the CR accordingly.

 

[Nifft]

NPCs may not have full power points. The PCs may not be their first encounter of the day; also, the NPC may wish to save power points for potential future engagements.

(I'm assuming the NPC runs away after using 25% of his power points, rather than dies helplessly. )

-- N