I killed a character, twice!

[NJC207]

You don't actually have to take a save when being pushed or other forced movement into a hazard, drop or similar. Out of curiosity, if you were aware you didn't have to take the saving throw would you have just fallen off while on a higher amount of HP earlier before the other creatures arrived?

I'm not sure, to be honest. I still had hp at that point and was sure I would get a turn before I got too low on hp. I might have jumped, but I was not really damaged until that final round. The inclusion of a new dominate threat every round was something I had not anticipated. Had I survived that final round with the two claw attacks still concious, yes, I would have jumped, and problebly made an acrobatics check to catch the rope we had left dangling some four stories below. The chance of that was slim, though, as there was also a magical wind effect around the tower that threw people away from the tower as well.

 

[fba827]

I killed a character, twice!

Every encounter is a bit of a learning experience (what works, what doesn't, what you like, what the group likes, and also for the players in terms of learning tactics and group synergy). So, my point, don't get too focused on this that it paralyzes you with over-analysis in future encounters.

Having said that, since you asked ...

Death #1 (death after regeneration): as you said, the group misunderstood how it worked, leading to the deadly tactical choice. I can understand it and no one knew any better.

That being said, ask yourself this -- if there was someone constantly healing unconscious people back, would the enemies have gone after the healer with just as much effort as they did against the regenerator?
If no, they wouldn't have gone after a healer with the same effort, then yes you did single her out. If yes they would have gone after a healer with just as much effort, then you did not single her out and you played the monster consistently with how you envisioned their intelligence and tactics.

(Just wondering, how smart (and/or organized) are those enemies that did this?)

Death #2: beating someone to unconsciousness and then "throwing them down to be with the rest of the party" that seems excessive -- why would they throw her down with the rest of the party?

If they threw her down because that is the feeding pit for some creature they worship, that's another story. But if the justification for them throwing her was to put her with the others just seems odd (to me) - given that height and no foreknowledge of the party, the monster may think that the party members that fell actually died.

If they wanted to eat her, they should have eaten her. If they really just wanted to be left alone, then after everyone else was gone and she was surrounded they may have said "leave now and never return" (indicating that she can climb down on her own, possibly after demanding some gold/jewelry/magic item she has on her).

If they wanted to bring strife/something to the nearby town, they could have planted some hypnotic suggestion in her and then let her leave only to act like a 'sleeper agent' in town (to do something that the creatures could not do themselves or was too dangerous) adding a new plot for the party to deal with snapping her out of it and undoing whatever damage was caused.

Anyway, my point on this death is, I think there should have been a point when it was an obvious victory and asked yourself "what really is the motivation of these enemies (food, defense, privacy, etc) and is there a way to turn this into a cool (yet natural and believable) plot hook?" and then just worked from there.


Hindsight is 20/20. In the heat of the moment, with all the other DM-related things going on in your head, it's easy to get caught up and do something that you second guess. But give yourself credit for a) DMing which is often a thankless job in itself, b) getting regular feedback from the players, and c) trying to find ways to improve future encounters.



As a personal anecdote: in my time DMing (even some recently) there have been PC-kill moments that I questioned and regretted after the fact. But you just learn from it and go on.

 

[CovertOps]

There is one thing that's bothering me about this. You have said the fall was 10d6 worth, and it has been assumed that it was 100' and was supposed to be 10d10 per the 4e rules. This isn't what is bugging me. After a 100' fall (assumed) and a fly speed of 4 (clumsy) the Incubi were able to fly 20 squares amazingly quickly (even using a double move of 8 or a double "run" of 12) that is TWO FULL ROUNDS OF NOTHING BUT FLYING to get back to the top of the tower after they went down with a PC and even then they won't be able to attack until the 3rd round after the fall. So assuming that a PC got dominated in round 1 and fell, the earliest that Incubus could do something at the top of the tower would be round 4 and that's assuming that the given PC made his/her save in the first round of being dominated.

I bring this up as something the DM might have done wrong and to learn from for future encounters if that is the case.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The chance of that was slim, though, as there was also a magical wind effect around the tower that threw people away from the tower as well.

This deal's getting worse all the time.

 

[Incendax]

This deal's getting worse all the time.

The wind cushioned their fall and reduced the damage from 10d10 to 10d6. It just prevented the party from scaling the outside of the tower and avoiding all the encounters inside.

 

[eamon]

My vote's for "monster is too strong for its XP budget" as the biggest issue. A DM should give hints when a combat is particularly unusual, and most will automatically - but that means you've gotta know how hard an encounter is in the first place; here, the incubi really were too hard and the drop essentially added a dangerous trap.

With other monsters, the rest of the issues probably would not have mattered.

As a DM, beyond double-checking monster stats to recognize when a situation is hopeless, you can ask yourself how the PC's should have recognized the hopeless situation. In this case, the PC's should have been aware of the extreme danger of the drop not so much due to the damage, but because of the splitting of the group. So, with 20/20 hindsight, a few insight checks to hint at the danger of splitting up and a monster knowledge check revealing that the incubi are more dangerous than they seem might have been enough to encourage the party not to fight this fight.

It's a little lame to tell the players the effective XP budget of an encounter, but it's entirely reasonable to implicitly convey that information. Both from a game-play perspective and from a believability perspective it just doesn't work to have heroes fighting unwinnable battles. Unless you're fishing for some tragedy angle, of course...

 

[Skornn2k7]

Incendax, I would not beat yourself up too bad, shtuff happens while DM'ing. I remember running a game, I handed a player a piece of paper. All it said was " You are dead, its part of the plot. Make a new character". He looks at it, shrugs, and starts making a new character. lol, fastest kill ever.