I love 4E - but I hate the 4E modules. What can be done?

[JoeGKushner]

I'm a little confused.

The 4e adventurers that I've seen and run aren't one long string of fighting. They are often broken up encounters with various areas that the GM can easily custom to his campaign.

Or at least that's been my experience with H1, H2, and some of the other material I'm prepping.

In H2 for example, there are several different dungeons, not that different from the Dungeon Delves themselves, but several parts are tied together with various links. For example, Well of Demons is a nice tie in to the next bit but it could almost as easily been a Dungeon Delve of itself. And it's just one of several pieces.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I'm a little confused.

The 4e adventurers that I've seen and run aren't one long string of fighting. They are often broken up encounters with various areas that the GM can easily custom to his campaign.

Or at least that's been my experience with H1, H2, and some of the other material I'm prepping.

In H2 for example, there are several different dungeons, not that different from the Dungeon Delves themselves, but several parts are tied together with various links. For example, Well of Demons is a nice tie in to the next bit but it could almost as easily been a Dungeon Delve of itself. And it's just one of several pieces.

For me it isn't the sheer number of encounters that is the problem. The tone and presentation of the adventures are what make them lame IMHO.
Honestly, the original G series modules were mostly maps filled with keyed contents of the various areas including combat stats, traps, treasures and descriptive info. There was a little plot information linking the adventures but it wasn't a major part of the adventures strictly word count wise. Revenge has a lot more content devoted to story than the originals ever did.

What made the originals fun classics isn't what they contained, rather it was what they didn't contain. The stage was set, and the PC's entered the action with whatever approach they could come up with. Combat stats were provided for the creatures that could be encountered but no assumptions were made regarding when, where, or if they would actually be fought. The players were not led by the nose through pre-constructed scenes. Unless there was an ambush situation combats were generally not set in stone. The 4E module format assumes and handholds far too much. Maybe new DM's might find this more helpful than annoying but should a paragon tier adventure assume the DM is running his/her first game?

I think another part of the problem is the 4E harsh binary division of the in and out of combat state. That divide reminds me more of MMO play than powers actually. Every time I envision a character trying to perform an action in a time sensitive stressful action scene that has been made into a ritual I can't but see the message " You are in combat" pop up over the character's head.

 

[Jhaelen]

In my opinion, very poorly written linear stories. At least is not the kind of D&D roleplaying we do around here... but that's a matter of taste, for sure.

While I have no idea what 'kind of D&D roleplaying you do around your place', the quality of the LFR modules varies quite a bit. The first three modules I looked at were quite bad.

Having now seen more of them, there are definitely also quite a few good ones. The problem (for me) is: How do you find out which ones are good before downloading and reading them?

The synopsis typically doesn't tell you anything useful and I haven't found any good reviews for them, either.

 

[Gort]

The synopsis typically doesn't tell you anything useful and I haven't found any good reviews for them, either.

Hm, maybe I should set up a website where people can contribute their reviews of modules for 4e D&D - RottenModules.com

 

[TerraDave]

I'm a little confused.

The 4e adventurers that I've seen and run aren't one long string of fighting. They are often broken up encounters with various areas that the GM can easily custom to his campaign.

Or at least that's been my experience with H1, H2, and some of the other material I'm prepping.

In H2 for example, there are several different dungeons, not that different from the Dungeon Delves themselves, but several parts are tied together with various links. For example, Well of Demons is a nice tie in to the next bit but it could almost as easily been a Dungeon Delve of itself. And it's just one of several pieces.

Thunderspire is an interesting approach, sort of a mini-megadungeon. I like a lot of things about it.

But it has about 22 combat encounters, almost all multi opponenet, multi room affairs. This does not include random encounters. It does have some other stuff, but a lof of the combat.

If I was still doing a weekly game I could take those 22 encounters and then flesh out with other stuff. It would be ok. Though even back then I tended to short cut modules that started to feel like fight after fight.

With less frequent play, I could still flesh it out, and just spend a really, really long time on it. I don't want to do that. I would love to be able to play in 3 longish sessions.

 

[Stoat]

I'm a little confused.

The 4e adventurers that I've seen and run aren't one long string of fighting. They are often broken up encounters with various areas that the GM can easily custom to his campaign.

Or at least that's been my experience with H1, H2, and some of the other material I'm prepping.

In H2 for example, there are several different dungeons, not that different from the Dungeon Delves themselves, but several parts are tied together with various links. For example, Well of Demons is a nice tie in to the next bit but it could almost as easily been a Dungeon Delve of itself. And it's just one of several pieces.

Similar to Exploder Wizard, I think tone and presentation has a lot to do with the perception that 4E adventures are all combat all the time. The delve format ensures that the bulk of every adventure is devoted to the combat challenges. Diplomacy, investigation, exploration, what have you are either sketched out quickly in an introductory section or are folded into a skill challenge.

I also agree that 4E adventures are entirely too scripted.

 

[Nebulous]

Having run H1 and H2 and a chunk of H3, i do agree that for the most part the official adventures come across as one fight after another, and part of this is the encounter presentation. I don't particularly like that either and i try to shake it up some. In Pyramid i turned several "combat" encounters into NPC interactions, or removed the fight completely or replaced it with something of my own choice. It looks like my party might actually skip a large section of the first level, so either i'll let them or i'll rework some of those NPCs into a later level (one entire faction i've turned into possible allies who will travel with them).

Regardless, the official modules take considerable work to make them your own. Running them "as is" they will probably come up short and overall unsatisfying. I actually really enjoyed Shadowfell and Thunderspire, and i like Pyramid OK but to a lesser extent. I'll almost certainly end Pyramid prematurely and move onto something else.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Maybe new DM's might find this more helpful than annoying but should a paragon tier adventure assume the DM is running his/her first game?

I think that's the problem right there. WOTC most likely designed the adventures for newbie DMs and/or people with very little prep time. I guess they assumed that more experienced DMs/ people looking for a less combat focused adventure would make thier own adventures/find adventures more suited to their taste elsewhere. Clearly, WOTC isn't the only maker of 4E adventures (yet I think that many people seem to feel this way). Also, I'm suprised that no mentioned Open Design yet.

 

[Nebulous]

Also, I'm suprised that no mentioned Open Design yet.

Hey, what's the general consensus on the Open Design adventures? Are they truly awesome?

 

[Jack99]

Hey, what's the general consensus on the Open Design adventures? Are they truly awesome?

Yeah. Crunch wasn't flawless on the first one, due to 4e being very new to Wolfgang and those who helped, but that has since been remedied and the stories are just amazing. I mean, really amazing and full of RP possibilities and choices.

In short, they are worth every penny you can spare. (IMO of course)