D&D 5E I Love D&D Next, But ...

[mlund]

I just have to wonder how many of the "this format or bust!" assertions are really just "non-DRM electronic copies so I can pirate it or bust." People that are only interested in the game if they can torrent it for free aren't the potential customer base in the first place.

- Marty Lund

 

[BlueBlackRed]

I just have to wonder how many of the "this format or bust!" assertions are really just "non-DRM electronic copies so I can pirate it or bust." People that are only interested in the game if they can torrent it for free aren't the potential customer base in the first place.

- Marty Lund

If they can think of a way for someone to be able to access the file while not online, doesn't force them to jump through DRM hoops, is as quick and easily usable as a PDF, and doesn't make them feel treated like a thief then maybe people won't have a problem using non-PDF's.

Until then people will buy the books then happily download those same books' PDF's and not feel like a thief.

 

[Kinak]

I just have to wonder how many of the "this format or bust!" assertions are really just "non-DRM electronic copies so I can pirate it or bust." People that are only interested in the game if they can torrent it for free aren't the potential customer base in the first place.

This shouldn't come as a shock, but it's trivial to torrent 4e books. It was (and probably still is) trivial to torrent 3.5 books that were never released as PDFs.

So the "pirate or bust" people are already happy. Their needs are already being met, as are the needs of the "PDFs, regardless of legality, or bust" people.

The only people who are really getting screwed right now are the ones who want legitimate PDF copies. Those are the people arguing in this thread and they are assuredly a potential customer base.

-Kinak

 

[Jacob Marley]

If it's really 'PDF or bust'... and if D&DN DOES get released on PDF... would you actually still put it aside for your B/X or 2E books that AREN'T PDF?

Decisions, decision...

My Mentzer Basic/Expert books are PDFs! Even if they weren't, a couple of 64 page, soft-cover books are considerably easier to carry around than my hard-cover books.

@mlund - I have a rather large collection of PDFs, all of which were paid for, in-full from Paizo. The insinuation that we are just a bunch of pirates is pretty low.

 

[slobster]

This shouldn't come as a shock, but it's trivial to torrent 4e books. It was (and probably still is) trivial to torrent 3.5 books that were never released as PDFs.

-Kinak

It certainly is . . . or so I have heard.

Restrictive DRM harms the honest consumer, not the pirate. I've bought a bunch of Pathfinder pdfs even though I don't regularly play the game, while I haven't bought anything from Wizards recently despite the fact that I like the sound of it, because there aren't digital options that I would own.

 

[IronWolf]

I just have to wonder how many of the "this format or bust!" assertions are really just "non-DRM electronic copies so I can pirate it or bust." People that are only interested in the game if they can torrent it for free aren't the potential customer base in the first place.

Really?

There are those of us that simply prefer PDF for certain things. I am one of those people. I like PDFs because here I am at the hospital with someone and in my bag I have every Paizo book I have purchased. I have the DCC RPG rules and some rules for other game systems. Just yesterday, while still at the hospital I referenced the DCC RPG PDF for some game prep for the game I ran last night. PDFs are a form of convenience. No Internet connection needed, I can simply refer to it on my platform of choice - tablet or laptop.

While I can understand not everyone has begun (or ever will) use PDFs this way there are a good number of us who buy PDFs of available products for the convenience of having our tablet loaded up with them.

Wanting PDF releases of gaming products is not so we can pirate them.

 

[amerigoV]

I would love an electronic version, but not just PDF. Something on the iPad that is built to take advantage of that technology. A PDF of a book is OK on a tablet, but not great. Then they can add video clips for examples, interactive illustrations (move a token around to see the effects of cover), etc.

 

[mlund]

I would love an electronic version, but not just PDF. Something on the iPad that is built to take advantage of that technology. A PDF of a book is OK on a tablet, but not great. Then they can add video clips for examples, interactive illustrations (move a token around to see the effects of cover), etc.

That would be awesome, but the platform dependency would cheese some people off. The nice thing about PDF is pretty much every PC, MAC, and device running iOS, Android, or a Linux distribution can read a PDF. I get the importance of being as agnostic as possible in terms of operating system.

On the other hand, I also completely understand the desire to make unlicensed distribution less simple than just sharing a PDF on docs.google.com. If there were some sort of lightweight, platform-agnostic app that implemented something like HTML5 and CSS3 and just managed a basic 1-at-a-time Account ID and the documents it read contained authorization based on said Account ID that would probably be ideal. Copy the file all your want. Back it up until the cows come home. Use it on a million different devices. Use it online or off-line as you please. It'll only run on a copy of the app that's been hooked to your purchase Account ID.

Sure, someone can circumvent that by circulating their purchase Account ID and Password. What could possibly go wrong, right? Someone could even use multiple IDs all the time by keeping a slew of app installs on virtual machines, but that's effort. Even just deterring the lazy pirates would be significant.

What I'd really like about something like this would be the option to re-download the latest version of a book I purchased with the latest Errata already integrated (if not in the layout at least as a rollover or flyout at the appropriate section). One of the biggest selling-points for the digital Compendium and Character Builder for 4E for me was not having to cross-reference errata documents with the books.

That feature would require the latest and patch of the app, thus reducing the value of unlicensed 3rd party reader apps or cracked versions of the main reader. Updated versions would add value over the typical leaked print-shop pirate PDF copies of most books too.

- Marty Lund

 

[TrippyHippy]

It's pdf or bust for me. More than anything else, if D&D isn't available electronically (in the same way Pathfinder or C&C is) then it's a straight deal breaker.

I want to support D&DNext, but they have to support their fan-base first.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Sure, someone can circumvent that by circulating their purchase Account ID and Password. What could possibly go wrong, right? Someone could even use multiple IDs all the time by keeping a slew of app installs on virtual machines, but that's effort. Even just deterring the lazy pirates would be significant.

It's not that much effort at all. I've heard of a group of friends who share a single D&DI account.

But let's say that system is in place, and let's say it somehow prevents people from sharing IDs and passwords (and the actual files). The pirates will extract each book (or just scan the physical copies), convert them to PDF, and upload them to torrent sites. If you want to steal that book, it would be as easy as going to a torrent site and downloading it--and then you have a PDF, which is an extremely convenient format you can use anywhere you want.

If you're a legitimate customer, you have to go to the WotC site, faff about with product IDs and such, give them money, and end up with a restrictive, proprietary, massively inconvenient product.

See how the product the pirate gets has way more value than the product the customer gets? That's what you have to address. The product you get by paying should be at least as good as the product you would get by pirating.

What I'd really like about something like this would be the option to re-download the latest version of a book I purchased with the latest Errata already integrated (if not in the layout at least as a rollover or flyout at the appropriate section). One of the biggest selling-points for the digital Compendium and Character Builder for 4E for me was not having to cross-reference errata documents with the books.

That feature would require the latest and patch of the app, thus reducing the value of unlicensed 3rd party reader apps or cracked versions of the main reader. Updated versions would add value over the typical leaked print-shop pirate PDF copies of most books too.

That's a start. It gives the customer a service he actually wants to use, rather than just devaluing the product. Still, I don't see how that would prevent people from sharing IDs and passwords.