I Recant (sort-of)

[Ralif Redhammer]

I've been pretty scathing in my opinion of WotC/3e as of late.

Over the weekend, I sat down with the core rulebooks to take a stab at, well, I don't want to say fixing, but making it more amenable to my inclinations. I'd previously avoided tinkering with it, due to the modular nature of the rules. Take one thing out and there'll be a cascade of effects. But I figured, what have I got to loose. In 2e, I took out weapon speeds as needless clutter, and the game wasn't adversely affected. This is what I came up with.

#1 (and #1 on my hitlist): Attacks of Opportunity. Totally gone. I hate having every other action the PCs take provoking a possible attack. The concentration skill is going to also be removed, as it becomes largely superfluous. With defensively casting, it creates entirely too much of a "roll the dice to see if you get to roll the dice" scenario. If I absolutely need a concentration roll, it'll be resolved with a will save.

#2: Level Adjustments. I understand the need for balance, but in practice it's been a real drag. As long as I don't have anyone wanting to play a Beholder Swashbuckler, I should be fine, and even then, Savage Species should help.

#3: Prestige Classes. I'm thinking of either doing away with them entirely, or simplifying the requirements and replacing some of the rule-requirements with in-game RP requirements. Not sure on this part though.

#4: Gnomes. Still not sure what to do with these poor guys. I guess I need to pick whether gnomes are illusionists, earth-faeries, scholars, or inventors, as long as they're not all three at once.

#5: Multiclassing. I'm not entirely happy with the way the current rules function in practice, but don't really know what to do with it.

Once I rid it of those pet peeves, I didn't feel so bad about the system. Don't get me wrong, I still prefer Castles & Crusades, but I'm willing to take off the hat of d02. I'll still sing its praises every chance I get, but I will try not to do so at the expense of 3e.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I don't understand the hat of AoS, personally, but if you must do away with them, you need to do something to counter the increased effectiveness of things that draw them.

Grappling, unarmed attacks, disarming, sundering, spellcasting, ranged attacks in melee range all become easier. Feats like mobility, combat reflexes, Improved Trip and Disarm, become pointless, which alters pre-requisites and prestige classes.

AoOs are one of the harder things to yank without repercussions.

 

[tjoneslo]

I agree that AoO rules are a huge confusing mess.

I think one of the best things to do is alter the order in which combat moves are executed. D&D rules assume and encouage taking actions on your initiative count. Instead of starting at the top of the initiative order and asking for actions, I start at the bottom, asking for the action for the round. By the time we get to the top of the order, the fastest person knows what's going on and can react to it. Then everyone rolls dice.

It requires a little more disipline to avoid the declared action takeback discussion but it works well with my group.

 

[ForceUser]

I don't agree that AoOs are a mess; I think they're perfectly logical and intrinsic to the 3E combat system. As Rod said, remove them and you've suddenly given a whole range of formerly AoO-provoking manuevers carte blanche. Whatever floats your boat, I guess, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to play 3E without them.

 

[Henry]

I'm just one of those who has always never understood the difficulty some have with Op-Attacks, and my group and I found them intuitive enough to handle them pretty decisively when they crop up; to each his own, though.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

#1 (and #1 on my hitlist): Attacks of Opportunity. Totally gone. I

Fair enough. This is going to affect more than spellcasting though. Just be on the alert.

#2: Level Adjustments. I understand the need for balance, but in practice it's been a real drag. As long as I don't have anyone wanting to play a Beholder Swashbuckler, I should be fine, and even then, Savage Species should help.

If you toss out LA, but introduct monster levels, I don't much of a problem either provided on the disposition of your gaming group. That said, if you think everyone's going to play a drow, drop the spell resistance.

Prestige Classes. I'm thinking of either doing away with them entirely, or simplifying the requirements and replacing some of the rule-requirements with in-game RP requirements.

As long as the PC isn't eligible for the PrC until the minimum level, you should be OK. If a PC wants to be a Dwarven Defender at level 3, just send him on some kind of wacky quest that will take a few levels to resolve. By the time he gets back, he can be level 6 and you're all good.

That said, some of the restrictions are in there because some of the PrCs stack with existing feats and skills at the lower range. Keep an eye out.

#4: Gnomes. Still not sure what to do with these poor guys. I guess I need to pick whether gnomes are illusionists, earth-faeries, scholars, or inventors, as long as they're not all three at once.

I agree. Drop them or re-wire them. The Valus campaign setting introduces them as "Pem", basically reclusive earth-faeries. I like Pem a lot more than I like Gnomes.

#5: Multiclassing. I'm not entirely happy with the way the current rules function in practice, but don't really know what to do with it.

Drop it. The exp penalty isn't necessary for balance. It really isn't that big a deal. If you want to encourage preferred classes, I think you're better off with giving the PC a nice low level item if they start in their preferred class. So a half-orc can begin the game with a free masterwork battleaxe, an elven wizard can begin with a 1st level spell scroll, etc.

Happy gaming!

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Yeah, Attacks of Opportunity are deeply-rooted in 3e. But they just bug me...previous editions didn't have them, and worked just fine. In my opinion, they add too much clutter to the combat round.

Yes, yanking them out provides a whole lot of carte blanche to combat actions. But that's also freedom. I think that the PCs will be more likely to try those different actions, to get more imaginative with their combat strategies, without having to worry about AoO's.

Maybe converting stuff like improved trip and grapple to a straight bonus of +2 to their respective actions would work?

And thanks for the advice and warnings, BiggusGeekus. I certainly don't forsee a influx of drow. In 20 years of gaming, I think I've only seen about 2 drow PCs.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I much prefer the racial subsitution levels to the multiclassing rules as a way to encourage racial archetypes.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Yeah, Attacks of Opportunity are deeply-rooted in 3e. But they just bug me...previous editions didn't have them, and worked just fine. In my opinion, they add too much clutter to the combat round.

Yes, yanking them out provides a whole lot of carte blanche to combat actions. But that's also freedom. I think that the PCs will be more likely to try those different actions, to get more imaginative with their combat strategies, without having to worry about AoO's.

Maybe converting stuff like improved trip and grapple to a straight bonus of +2 to their respective actions would work?

I'm 180-degrees off from you. I think one of the most frustrating things in previous editions was a complete inability to prevent mage-rushes (where oponnents just ran right past your front line troops) and such. It resulted in far too much arguing and cheesy tactics. If anything, I don't think AoOs are sufficiently dangerous now.

Also, I would think you'd see far less diversity without them. The mantra of 3e seems to be 'choices', but to me 'decisions' are far more interesting. Things that have an upside without a downside are boring to me.

 

[Crothian]

Yeah, Attacks of Opportunity are deeply-rooted in 3e. But they just bug me...previous editions didn't have them, and worked just fine.

Previous editions are another game, its like saying GURPs works fine without them, and the game does, but GURPS is a million miles from d20.

If you don't like them, remove them. Its not that hard.