D&D General "I roll Persuasion."

[Reynard]

As a spinoff of the astoundingly long lived "I roll perception" thread:

I don't mind D&D social encounters being about players presenting ideas to NPCs and GMs deciding how that goes with maybe a persuasion roll involved or whatever, but I actually like the idea of full on "social combat" system just as intricate and tactically satisfying as the physical combat one. There would be positions taken, and angles of rhetorical attack, and specific maneuvers and even social specific magic, all dedicated to winnowing down "Resolve" or "Social Hit Points" to find out who won.

I tried a rough design once with a courtly intrigue adventure in an otherwise standard D&D campaign and a couple players completely balked -- especially the one playing the face (who felt like the system undermined his high Charisma and high Persuasion skill).

How do you feel about "social combat" in D&D? Do you think any edition of D&D has gotten social encounters "right"? Are there and 3rd party things (for any edition) that you think work for "social combat"? Am I just looking for a way to play "Ace Attorney" in D&D?

 

[payn]

I like to wing the social pillar, which I'm not sure is because its always been that way, or if its my actual preference. I have seen a few sub-systems, and they usually screw anybody that doesn't have charisma. I tend to run social combat in two different ways. One is the immediate attempt. For example, there is a building on fire in the city and you are trying to get a guard to leave their post and help. This is the "I roll persuasion" typical experience. I run a lot of political intrigue in my campaigns with faction play. So secondly, there is a lot of long term goals in the background that are effected by the party. Maintaining those relationships, and more importantly, changing them is a big long term play goal.

I think you need a social foundation before engaging in an actual social combat system. I would like to see something built into, perhaps, backgrounds that gives some more mechanics in the social pillar. Mage school, army barracks, court jester, etc.. Something that gives specific knowledge, push/pull, ability to interact within different types of groups in society. Also, adding a few bits into class design might help in this regard too. Something that can make characters a little less one dimensional in the social game. So, long story short, I dont think the infrastructure has ever been present enough to make social combat fair and/or satisfying. YMMV

 

[overgeeked]

How do you feel about "social combat" in D&D? Do you think any edition of D&D has gotten social encounters "right"? Are there and 3rd party things (for any edition) that you think work for "social combat"? Am I just looking for a way to play "Ace Attorney" in D&D?

I prefer it somewhere between where it is now in 5E, with RP centered and maybe a roll if required, and some kind of group check or skill challenge. Combat is monotonous so I wouldn’t want to make anything else in the game more like combat.

 

[iserith]

Here's a social combat (and combat combat) for you: How to Defeat the Forum Troll.

As I've mentioned before, I think the current social interaction rules for D&D 5e are actually good by D&D standards and offer different options and strategies for the players to pursue as you try to figure out the NPC's characteristics and use them to adjust their attitude before getting to The Ask.

 

[beancounter]

I have no problem with a social combat system.

However, IMHO, if you're going to design a social combat system in D&D, it should take the "face's" high persuasion/intimidation/deception into account, Otherwise I agree that that would undermine the players expectations of their PCs abilities.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

As a spinoff of the astoundingly long lived "I roll perception" thread:

I don't mind D&D social encounters being about players presenting ideas to NPCs and GMs deciding how that goes with maybe a persuasion roll involved or whatever, but I actually like the idea of full on "social combat" system just as intricate and tactically satisfying as the physical combat one. There would be positions taken, and angles of rhetorical attack, and specific maneuvers and even social specific magic, all dedicated to winnowing down "Resolve" or "Social Hit Points" to find out who won.

I tried a rough design once with a courtly intrigue adventure in an otherwise standard D&D campaign and a couple players completely balked -- especially the one playing the face (who felt like the system undermined his high Charisma and high Persuasion skill).

How do you feel about "social combat" in D&D? Do you think any edition of D&D has gotten social encounters "right"? Are there and 3rd party things (for any edition) that you think work for "social combat"? Am I just looking for a way to play "Ace Attorney" in D&D?

this sounds amazing... it is well beyond my ability to make a 'social combat' system but I would LOVE to see one if not use it

 

[schneeland]

Basically I agree with what @overgeeked says: I don't really want to see much more complicated mechanics for social situations (especially considering that the systems I have encountered in other systems often felt more cumbersome than helpful), save maybe for the aforementioned group check and a lightweight system for hirelings and factions.
Contrary to the exploration pillar, which I would like to see extended, I am, in fact, mostly fine with how D&D handles things.
The only point is that IMO you don't simply roll persuasion/intimidation/etc. - you either act it out or you at least give a summary of what you want to achieve and how you would like to do it (same for perception).

 

[billd91]

There may be specific situations where a social interaction may be suitable for certain types of more elaborate gamification than role playing and a few checks. But I'm generally not in favor of "social combat" systems being widespread.

 

[Reynard]

I have no problem with a social combat system.

However, IMHO, if you're going to design a social combat system in D&D, it should take the "face's" high persuasion/intimidation/deception into account, Otherwise I agree that that would undermine the players expectations of their PCs abilities.

I actually made different social "attacks" based on different stats, making sure every character had some "maneuvers" they could use. The Charisma based character's player was the one that freaked out.

 

[Umbran]

Here's a social combat (and combat combat) for you: How to Defeat the Forum Troll.

Mod Note:
This looks like a thinly veiled attempt to call people forum trolls.

Maybe that wasn't the intent. Be nice to people in the thread, and we can guess that wasn't the intent. Be disrespectful further on, and, well, you lose the benefit of the doubt.