D&D 5E I still want D&D and Beyond, but...

[Warpiglet-7]

I skipped 2e, 3.5 and 4 (played a session or two only).

I was due to skip an edition!

While I like the possibility of 3rd part stuff, there is a tons of free stuff out there or stuff to convert or I make my own. We are not nearly done exhausting the possibilities of 5e. Hell we could do wild stuff if we went back to 1e!

If you don’t like this mess don’t support the company but don’t torch your own personal hobby. Things can and do change a lot over time.

 

[aco175]

You want to characterize it differently, knock yourself out. But the money-people who are making these decisions on the OGL are probably just as small a contingent of WotC as the artists who create for everything Wizards puts out. And it's not likethe WotC HR department, Janitorial, Accounting, and Office Security have anything to do with it either. Anything you do to the corp hits those innocents as well.

This also seems to have something with the argument people are having about taking food from the mouths of families. All these families count on Hasbro to feed their children, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.

I certainly feel bad for the smaller companies and support some where I can, but to just say Hasbro is a billion dollar company, they can afford to do everything. Kind of like when people see a problem and say that the government should pay for it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You want to characterize it differently, knock yourself out. But the money-people who are making these decisions on the OGL are probably just as small a contingent of WotC as the artists who create for everything Wizards puts out. And it's not likethe WotC HR department, Janitorial, Accounting, and Office Security have anything to do with it either. Anything you do to the corp hits those innocents as well.

So you wanting to chastise the whole corporation for the actions of a few is pretty much on the same level as me doing the opposite.

So this is no longer the "artists" argument, it's the even worse Tiny Tim argument?

That by failing to support WotC through thick and thin, I'm Scrooge and taking food from the mouth of Tiny Tim by "forcing" (LOL!) WotC to downsize Bob Crachit, WotC janitor (and let's be real btw - their janitorial staff are almost certainly also contractors). You going to hold us responsible for all job losses under capitalism or something? This is wild.

If us not wanting to buy WotC stuff because WotC is doing stupid crap is bad, then how bloody bad is what WotC's doing? There's a ton more Tiny Tim factor with trying to deauthorize the OGL, preventing 3PPs from making money and so on (and let's be clear, $750k is NOT a lot of money for a small business to have as it's revenue).

Your argument is dead in the water, dude. Best case scenario for it is WotC are the ones really doing this.

 

[eyeheartawk]

Your argument is dead in the water, dude. Best case scenario for it is WotC are the ones really doing this.

Yeah, like, if we can't hold large corporations accountable by voting with our wallets because it might hurt somebody employed by them, how would we ever hold them accountable for stuff like this?

 

[S'mon]

I'm talking with my players about cancelling of the ongoing subscriptions to D&D Beyond that share material with my campaigns.
I just posted this on my Discord:

Cancelling D&D Beyond subscriptions - for those of you paying a recurring fee to D&DB - I think if WoTC don't issue a clarifying statement shortly, I would rather not have games I'm running benefit from material shared under such a subscription. Ideally I'd prefer you contact D&DB to let them know that you'll be terminating your subscription, and why. I don't currently have plans to delete my D&D campaigns logged on D&D Beyond, but may consider this moving forward, and I would prefer to move away from reliance on a WoTC owned site.

 

[DEFCON 1]

So this is no longer the "artists" argument, it's the even worse Tiny Tim argument?

That by failing to support WotC through thick and thin, I'm Scrooge and taking food from the mouth of Tiny Tim by "forcing" (LOL!) WotC to downsize Bob Crachit, WotC janitor (and let's be real btw - their janitorial staff are almost certainly also contractors).

If us not wanting to buy WotC stuff because WotC is doing stupid crap is bad, then how bloody bad is what WotC's doing? There's a ton more Tiny Tim factor with trying to deauthorize the OGL, preventing 3PPs from making money and so on (and let's be clear, $750k is NOT a lot of money for a small business to have as it's revenue).

Your argument is dead in the water, dude. Best case scenario for it is WotC are the ones really doing this.

Quite frankly I don't care at all whether you or anyone buys or doesn't buy D&D stuff. Do whatever you want.

But my original point to @dave2008 before you decided to get involved and comment back to me was that they could still like D&D Beyond as a program even if they didn't like WotC the company. The "art" (in this case the program) versus the "artist" (the people who made the program.) And then I clarified further that even in this case, the "artist" (the programmers and designers of D&D Beyond) weren't even the people to be mad at either. Liking one while disliking the other was a completely normal reaction.

If you yourself want to break off entirely from the Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro corporation because of this whole OGL thing... that is your right and I have no problem with it. But for those that don't wish to go that far... there's any number of reasons why a person can keep their toes in the pool.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Yeah, like, if we can't hold large corporations accountable by voting with our wallets because it might hurt somebody employed by them, how would we ever hold them accountable for stuff like this?

I do not have an issue with this take.

However, my own personal opinion on the matter is that I do not believe it is ultimately effective in most cases, because it is virtually impossible for a singular person to aim their ire at the specific part of their target they want because the target is just too big. The shot more often than not won't ever reach the point they were aiming for.

That's not to say people shouldn't try... after all, even 5E was designed such that a hundred Commoners could maybe eventually take down a Dragon if they all kept firing at it... but I also have no issue with the people who just think trying to take on the Dragon in the first place is not worth their time.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

there's any number of reasons why a person can keep their toes in the pool.

Sure, and legitimate ones are things like "I like the product, and I don't really care that much about the other issues". WotC are trying to destroy livelihoods, but it's not like they're employing slave labour or something (AFAIK). It's legit to not see it as a major issue for you.

That's fine.

"I need to support the employees of large corporation, many of whom are contractors, even though they get a very small fraction of what I'm paying!" is however, not, I would suggest, a legitimate reason. It's really crap argument that makes no sense, and particularly fails completely in this situation, where WotC are destroying livelihoods of creatives. It just doesn't work.

 

[dave2008]

If you don’t like this mess don’t support the company but don’t torch your own personal hobby.

I don't want to torch my hobby, but right not it doesn't bring me joy. Just the opposite really.

Things can and do change a lot over time.

That is my hope.

 

[Horwath]

I will continue to play D&D5E,
I will still make homebrew for my group(s).

I may use material from 1D&D or 6E.

If OGL goes forward similar from the leaks, I will not give them one cent ever again.