Pathfinder 2E I think I am giving up on PF2ER

[payn]

I do wish there was a better path for like... Actual new editions in D&Dlikes, without massive engine changes. I still pine for say, a 3.5 release with a Warbladelike as the fighter, the assorted multiclass fix feats worked in, a new pass at classes/skill usage based on all that new development. 3.5 and PF1 were the closest we came to that kind of update, and they weren't really the result of taking X years of development and reworking/curating so much as outside business needs both times.

I'd really like more attempts at integration and improvement without blowing up the world. I think there's definitely some point where no one is going to be upset about starting over (10 years feels like plenty) and PFs wide open SRD mitigates that even further.

Yeah I can understand that, at the same time I can see why Paizo did it. After 5E launch, PF1 was basically a much more complicated version. PF2, however, stands out in a lot of ways to differentiate it from D&D currently. Being not just a but thee alternative to D&D puts the pressure on. As opposed to when 4E was on the scene and Paizo could rest on that keeping alive yesterday's game position.

 

[Reynard]

Starfinder 2E might be a bit easier because you're at the start of the cycle, rather than after several big books and a whole remaster. Might help you get over the hump of learning/knowing things by not feeling like you have a whole bunch of "homework", but are starting with everyone else.

I would say that it's also one of those very hard mental blocks to get over that I had for a long time (and still kind of do), where you feel like you have to know all the rules at any given time. Sometimes you roll with things if you can't find it quick and inform everyone that you'll look it up in the future. That might not fly with certain groups, but it does with mine.

We set out with the explicit intent of playing by RAW, since it was intentionally a test to find out if PF2 was THE game. I don't think it is, but maybe relaxing a little on that aspect will help.

In the end, I want to be able to run games fast and loose while allowing me players to engage in the deep rules minutia they seem to enjoy.

 

[Alzrius]

That's making the assumption their sales numbers weren't trending downward enough that prompted them to work on 2e to begin with.

That's making the assumptions that their sales numbers were trending downward, and that that's what prompted them to work on PF2 to begin with.

 

[payn]

We set out with the explicit intent of playing by RAW, since it was intentionally a test to find out if PF2 was THE game. I don't think it is, but maybe relaxing a little on that aspect will help.

In the end, I want to be able to run games fast and loose while allowing me players to engage in the deep rules minutia they seem to enjoy.

I was thinking on this the other day. Would I jump into 3E/PF1 enthusiastically today? I dont think so, but I do love it more than the alternatives for fantasy. Part of that is I went through the growing pains necessary to run fast and loose and let my players engage the deep rules minutia they seem to enjoy. Today we are inundated with so many systems and ease of access makes it hard to stick around long enough to really find out. YMMV.

 

[Reynard]

I was thinking on this the other day. Would I jump into 3E/PF1 enthusiastically today? I dont think so, but I do love it more than the alternatives for fantasy. Part of that is I went through the growing pains necessary to run fast and loose and let my players engage the deep rules minutia they seem to enjoy. Today we are inundated with so many systems and ease of access makes it hard to stick around long enough to really find out. YMMV.

To put it another way: I want to run Shadowdark while they play A5E.

 

[payn]

To put it another way: I want to run Shadowdark while they play A5E.

Are you cool with that? There is a point of playing that is worth figuring that out. There is also a time though where it might be cross purpose enough to jump ship.

 

[thullgrim]

In the end, I want to be able to run games fast and loose while allowing me players to engage in the deep rules minutia they seem to enjoy.

In my experience fast and loose aren’t possible with PF2. Despite my wishing otherwise.

 

[payn]

In my experience fast and loose aren’t possible with PF2. Despite my wishing otherwise.

Yeap, thats a big issue for me too. You can kinda get there with the proficiency without level variant, but this system was designed to be lock tight.

 

[Reynard]

Are you cool with that? There is a point of playing that is worth figuring that out. There is also a time though where it might be cross purpose enough to jump ship.

For clarity, I mean my preference would be for me to get to run a game with the same ease and improv as I run shadowdark at the same time that from their end they are playing with the complexity of A5E (and I only picked those two because they are both 5E variations and therefore ostensibly compatible).

 

[Eric V]

For clarity, I mean my preference would be for me to get to run a game with the same ease and improv as I run shadowdark at the same time that from their end they are playing with the complexity of A5E (and I only picked those two because they are both 5E variations and therefore ostensibly compatible).

Forgive me if this has already been asked, but would 13th Age split the difference?

(PF2E and 13th Age are my two F20 games now, so they're the ones I can feel confident recommending).