if no one was taking me seriously I would not have 5 conversations at once.
I think it's because you have bad arguments that people feel the need to address in this situation. Also you keep posting, so people keep posting.
do you lose credibility for believing that learning new facts and changing your own mind based on the new data is bad?
no just me?
Okay, I will take the "credibility" hit to continue talking through this... that is a cost I am willing to pay.
I mean, no one cares that you changed your mind on something when you still have bad opinions on the issues that matters. Again, not an inherent virtue.
so because I turned on wizards, and worked with YOU, then got to the point were I was happy with the compromise, then learned new fact took in new arguments and now have NEW reservations based on those that I am trying (with my gaming group) to compile... that is why I can't be trusted?
You lost me somewhere in there.
Did you turn on Wizards? Like, you didn't even get through a single revision of the OGL. You always came off as someone looking for an out. Again, you were defending the morality clause early.
You do realize I am still complaining to WotC... just not about EVERYTHING you are? right? You do realize the entire point of this was to find a GOOD way to keep teh Morality clause and all you have done (in a + thread) is talk about how it can never be?
Who cares about what you are complaining about when you are giving in on the most important things? Again, you don't get points simply for the act of complaining. You seem to have this idea that there are inherent values to certain actions when there aren't: everything is defined by the details.
in my gaming group I am the most knowledgeable of this... we talked for hours tonight
On tic tok I have been talking about this the whole time (but I do spend less time on there then here)
I even reopened my Twitter that I have not used in forever when this started to tweet about it... I have found that not everyone is on the same page even there.
On facebook not only I, but 2 people I super respect, like teh concept of teh morality clause but want it fine tuned.
There's no fine-tuning a superlaser like that. Wizards has yet to change that and has explicitly argued for it. It's not going to give it up. Acting like it can be "fine-tuned" misses that it's unnecessary and simply dangerous to anyone who isn't part of Wizards.
becuase half a dozen people are as crazy as I am to be up at 4am?
I'm guessing they all aren't in EST, and also they think your opinions aren't great but you post a whole lot.
okay, no one stood with me for the book of erotic fantays, or Eat the Rich (at least on here) I am use to a vocal number of posters overwhelming everyone and trying to brow beat them into the exact same group think. I 'm sorry you don't like it, but I still disagree.
You talked about Eat the Rich at the time it happened? And if you did, you realize you are just giving Wizards a bigger mandate to do stuff like that without any sort of guardrail or limitation?
then why is there a + thread at all to try to make it work?
Because that person was trying to create a theoretical idea of how to make one work, which explicitly takes Wizards out of the equation. You're just actively advocating for Wizards to have it, which is very much not the same.
refusing to change, bargan or compromise is not a virtue either. Not wanting to ever have facts or thoughts that oppose you be spoken is not a virtue...
I didn't claim that as a virtue, and while I have heard your "facts" I (like many) are thoroughly unconvinced by your reasoning, which largely relies on the ability to "fight later". This argument, especially coming from someone who barely fought at all, is very unconvincing.
and YOUR argument is undercut by not respecting that people actually grow and learn and change.
It's not, because no one really buys what you are saying as reflective of what I'm trying to get across. It's just a very weak effort to try and paint yourself as reasonable because you can't defend your point, and it's just not a good defense on its own because it assumes changing one's mind as an inherent virtue rather than based on the details of how and why it happened.
that doesn't get you much though
I wasn't trying to get much, to be honest. In fact, I could have stood getting less.
What I said was WHAT YOU CALL CRUMBS... not I am only here for crumes... I am here for Morality clause, no royalties (or if there must be MUCH better ones)
Already compromising
yet again. You wonder why we don't take your call of "fight in the future" as a serious argument and it's because you are folding to a stiff breeze on royalties
in your own arguments.
and releasing enough to allow PF LU and BF to continue on.
That is not actually assured, especially given what Wizards seems to think is its IP.
stopping progress because something bad MIGHT happen in the future is a bad argument. Assuming that the Higher Ups are more motivated by 'winning the argument through tricks' then making money is foolish at best.
This is a very bad argument, especially for a company that has recently been attempting to breach contracts and also strong-arm small publishers via NDA and the OGL 1.1. I assume bad things will happen because Wizards has repeatedly been doing bad things, up to and including the last week. I'd be a moron to disregard their current actions when giving them more power, let alone something that could annihilate the 3PP market.
I put that whole 2 honest and good people part in here becuase you have been trying to stear this from talking about the morality clause to putting ME personally in the questions
I actually didn't put you in the questions, you've just made a whole show and argument about the virtues of you personally changing your mind. It's why I said you can be a good and honest person with a terrible position.
there is no counter argument... you just keep telling me I am wrong.
We keep explaining to you in detail, but you keep coming back with stuff like "Don't just
assume the company that has acted in bad faith recently will use this clause to act in bad faith!" It's not a good look, tbh.
the fact that you have made it clear nothing will change your mind is a problem. It doesn't matter if I made the Ultimate Argument of Logic, had all the figures and all the facts showing you that you were wrong... You don't WANT to be shown another way.
Oh, I can change my mind, it just really requires a lot in this case. When someone shows themselves as a dishonest liar it just really takes a lot to regain the lost trust... if it can be regain at all. Wizards has broken that trust thoroughly and I have not seen any action that shows contrition or remorse for what they have done. Rather, I see them continuing on their path.
I guess we will see when the survey results come out
We will! I expect not to be surprised.