I tried the 4 player standard, what a mess...

[Vocenoctum]

You know, while I appreciate the CR system on a lot of levels, on one basic level I don't like it. Why should the universe always issue challenges that just happen to be exactly the level that the PCs are?

This is a common mistake among DM's I've had. CR is a rule for determining challenge, not for assigning it. If you have a 5th level party, and want a challenge, you can give a CR7 or 8 encounter. It will deplete X equipment and such.

The flip side of this, is that a lot of games develop the FightX4, Rest mode of playing. They expect 4 CR equal encounters, then a rest. DM's that want to run 12 encounters between resting need to learn how to space out lower CR monsters, rather than wondering why the players are all depleted after 6. If the players will be able to rest after a single encounter, then a higher CR encounter is needed.

 

[MerricB]

You know, while I appreciate the CR system on a lot of levels, on one basic level I don't like it. Why should the universe always issue challenges that just happen to be exactly the level that the PCs are?

Because, even in the rules, they aren't?

Get out your DMG. Actually have a look at the notes on encounter level. About 5% of encounters are suggested at EL APL+5, or near-certain death. If you look at various adventures, especially something like Sons of Gruumsh, you find Wizards don't release adventures with every encounter at APL (Average Party Level). There are some hideously challenging encounters in that adventure, as the death of a few PCs proved when I ran it.

Heck, the DMG even talks about Status-Quo (where you can encounter *any* encounter level) vs Tailored adventures. It's a good book.

Cheers!

 

[Hussar]

So, if the PCs camp outside the caves, they can't just wait until the ogre starves to death?

(I don't have a lot of sympathy for DMs who tell the players they can't try something because it isn't in the adventure text.)

Please read the adventure text. I said that you cannot talk your way past the ogre. The text specifically says that the ogre will attack after a short period of time.

 

[Raven Crowking]

IIRC, you'd give about 20% monster XP and 80% treasure XP in AD&D. It really was a game of "find the treasure" if you weren't using house rules.

Cheers!

Did anyone play 1e without using house rules.

Anyway, chowderhead that I am, I forgot to grab the 1e DMG this morning, so I'll quote it tomorrow instead. Sorry about that.

RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Please read the adventure text. I said that you cannot talk your way past the ogre. The text specifically says that the ogre will attack after a short period of time.

So, if you are outside of the cave, presumably, the ogre will exit the cave to attack?

Really, when you read the NPC tactics in modules, do you assume that this is what they do regardless of what the player characters do to prevent it or that this is what they do unless actions by the PCs dictate otherwise?

I assume the latter, and would hate to be a player with a DM who assumed the former.


RC

 

[Vocenoctum]

Please read the adventure text. I said that you cannot talk your way past the ogre. The text specifically says that the ogre will attack after a short period of time.

He said wait the ogre out, outside. No need to talk your way past when you can set traps outside, then pepper the ogre with arrows.

 

[cildarith]

Not to steal RC's thunder, but according to the 1E DMG, exceptional abilities include:

attacks causing maximum damage greater than 24 singly, 30 doubly, 36 trebly, or 42 in all combinations possible in 1 round

Also note that exceptional abilities were those that gave a huge increase in XP awarded, and large damage potential is on par with energy level drain, poison, major breath weapons, etc.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Not to steal RC's thunder, but according to the 1E DMG, exceptional abilities include:

Thanks for saving me the effort!

Also note that exceptional abilities were those that gave a huge increase in XP awarded, and large damage potential is on par with energy level drain, poison, major breath weapons, etc.

Bang on, then.

RC

 

[MerricB]

Also note that exceptional abilities were those that gave a huge increase in XP awarded, and large damage potential is on par with energy level drain, poison, major breath weapons, etc.

Relative to the HD of the monster, of course. There are some giant centipedes that could quite easily kill you, but didn't have many HD.

Cheers!

 

[Raven Crowking]

Just in case anyone is interested.....

I was a bit restless at about 2 am last night, so I cracked the 1e DMG and the 3e MM.

The 1e ogre had 4+1 HD and was worth 90 + 5/hp XP. If it had 26 hit points, it would have been worth 220 XP (a solid ML IV monster, with the ML IV ranging between 151-250 XP).

The 3e ogre has 4d8+8 HD and an average of 26 hp. It gains 90 base XP for its hit dice, +5/hp XP, and +125 XP for an exceptional ability (attacks causing max damage greater than 24 singly), or 345 XP total. This makes it ML V (251-500 XP).

It would be interesting (to me, at least) to check a number of monsters using the 1e system, and then see if there is any pattern one can discern between a creature's ML (or just 1e XP value) and its CR. If so, one could then use the 1e DMG to ballpark CR following a simple formula.

RC