I wanna get back on the railroad

[Noumenon]

I've been trying not railroading. Here's how:

1) I dropped hints about three different modules instead of railing them onto one. Result, they pick the hardest one first and almost die. And they do the first part of two different modules and don't get any treasure for two sessions. And they end up with four hours of roleplaying and no combat because I can't plan to drop in encounters for pacing when I don't know where they're going.

I think the pacing is the biggest problem with no railroading. I like to have my balance of combat and non-combat: "The party will have a discussion over what to do with the Black Pearl. Then something will attack. Then some role-playing, then another attack. Then some investigation, then the module proper."

In this case I had to totally drop the notion of the campaign for sheriff because it would've meant a fifth straight hour of roleplaying. In my normal preparation style, the session would have started with the campaign and gone "roleplaying to persuade voters, quest to win over voting bloc, roleplaying to debate opponent, quest to prove worthiness..." and been a lot more balanced.

Well, that's practically a whole post in itself but I already wrote points 2 and 3 so here they are.

2) I tried to get them to stay in town by having the townsfolk urge them both to stay and go, but have the mayor offer the fighter sweet armor to stay and be the sheriff. Result, they manage to get on the beach in a boat leaving town before I am able to get the mayor in contact with them, making the railroading obvious instead of a subtle nudge.

3) The party is splitting up over individual motivations -- not fighting, just not the kind of smooth, fun teamwork we get when we just assume motivations and go kick butt. I can't use "you're the sheriff" for adventure hooks because the other two have no interest in being hired on as deputies.

The good things that have resulted from non-railroading so far are that the rogue took the initiative to start a fishermen's cartel and the fighter took Wisdom damage from an allip and went swimming naked with a merfolk in the bay. Oh, and I pulled a water mephit completely out of my butt because I was desperate for a random encounter and the party ended up befriending it and teaching it conspiracy theories about merfolk instead of fighting. It was definitely a more freeform session, it just lacked team goals for the party to cooperate and achieve.

 

[Noumenon]

I forgot to mention the one where instead of leaving the party six potions of Improved Reduce Person and a map of the rat warrens, I left them the unlabeled potions and two symbols that they learned could shift their souls into rats' bodies. I was hoping they'd think of using the symbols to shift their souls into the bodies of their tiny animated construct pets that each of them has, but if they didn't the potions were there as backup.

Instead they figured the adventure must be over, or at least they'd rather abandon the treasure they didn't reclaim than go down a rat warren, and never came back. It would have been much better if I'd just put up a big "the rest of the module is in here" sign or even auto shrunk them. I thought it would be more fun to explore for a while and then find the map than to get the map straight off, but that lack of a railroad signpost killed the whole module.

 

[rogueattorney]

The million dollar question: Are the players having fun?

 

[Noumenon]

Another thing that's not good is that when I railroad, I have the maps pre-drawn and the monster tokens all lined up and paper-clipped to the pages of the module. This saves lots of time. When skipping among three modules, I have to draw in every room slowly, read the room descriptions, and I ended up using coke cans instead of tokens for the scorpions because I couldn't find any.

It didn't help that I was doing The Secret of Smuggler's Cove, which is a very nonlinear dungeon where you don't know what's next. My party managed to explore ten rooms in a row without a combat, too -- not an easy task, but that can happen when you allow random room selection instead of a nice, well-paced railroad.

 

[Crothian]

The module isn't dead. It is just waiting. The PCs go off to do something else then hear rumors of something going on in this town. Have the rats respond to what the PCs have done but didn't finish. Then the poor townsfolk have to deal with that and the PCs will come back to a situation they left undone and not it is worse then before.

 

[TerraDave]

What you cite as "railroading", I would just call "DMing".

Sandboxing sure has become trendy...but there is a lot to be said for some plot and structure. It can certainly be easier to DM, and many players do like it, as it gives them some pointers to get into the action and gets them involved in a bigger story. It also gets the players together on the same page: the biggest problem I see with more "open" aproaches is not differences between the DM and the players as a group, but different interests among the PCs.

At the same time, this is not the same as "railroading" where a must lead to b which must lead to c. A good adventure will always give lots of choice to the players, and any group of players worth their salt will leave their mark.

Which leads to the last point: this is a relative concept. Some people see the sandbox as being something like the Wilderlands+10 prepared adventures+massive DM improv. Others see it as (just) The Keep on the Borderlands.

I say, just do what works for you, and leave all this theory to the nets.

 

[greatamericanfolkher]

... My party managed to explore ten rooms in a row without a combat, too -- not an easy task, but that can happen when you allow random room selection instead of a nice, well-paced railroad.

Are they (the players) complaining about the lack of combat? If not, then I fail to see the problem.

 

[Noumenon]

The million dollar question: Are the players having fun?

I will make sure to ask and make sure, but to me it feels like the players had fun with the NPCs, but not as much fun when deciding what to do/looking for adventure hooks/waiting for me to figure out what happens next. With dungeon crawls, it's nonstop fun and no dithering. It might just be more fun for me when I am prepared for everything.

 

[Noumenon]

Are they (the players) complaining about the lack of combat? If not, then I fail to see the problem.

I will ask and see if they shared my perception of the energy in the room being lower. To me it just seems natural that it is more fun to explore an inhabited mansion than one that appears completely abandoned because you opened all the wrong doors.

 

[Remathilis]

Someone who has been sandboxing for a long time will inevitably come along and point out all the things you bemoaned are FEATURES, not bugs.

1.) PCs will have to learn what types of encounters they can handle and how to handle them without the "hand-holding" of the DM to determine if the encounter is balanced or not. This will result in a massive bodycount until the PCs adapt their tactics to either doing a lot of running or repeatedly exploiting holes (in rules, in your DM style) to survive these types of encounters. The best response, of course, is to close these holes by systematically banning supplemental elements of the ruleset and increasing the "player challenge" level until sufficiently kowtowed.

Secondly, since the players are in charge, its up to them if a session should involve combat. That doesn't preclude random encounters (bandits on the road, assassins, or even a goblin horde attacking a nearby town) but the PCs chose the method of interaction; combat, running, talking, etc. If they spend four hours talking to every NPC in town, that's their choice for the session. Combat-hungry PCs often find ways to have combats, just have a local tavern full of people and watch the fun when they get bored of chit-chat.

Thirdly, modules in a sandbox don't work the same way. They are static locals the PCs can travel to a their desire. There is incentive to clear them out quickly (before reinforcements come) but if the PCs want to wander between two or three modules, that's their prerogative. You can discourage it, of course, but having the denizen's adapt tactics and reinforce their base with fresh traps, new alliances, or adapted tactics (note: "kobolds" typically satisfy all three of these elements).

2.) You shouldn't be "sheriffing" anyone; that's a plot hook and in a sandbox you're not allowed to do that. PCs choose the hooks, not the DM. You can imply consequences (good or bad) and hint at potential hooks ("Yeah, seem's the mayor is offering some sweet armor to the anyone willing to govern this lawless town. Wonder if he'll get a sucker brave enough to do it?"). If the PCs bite for it, good. If they rather go hunt orcs in the swamps, set up a ration-store, or burn the town down knowing there is no law-enforcement to stop them; that's their choice too.

3.) As above, it is up to the PCs to decide their goals. If the fighter becomes sheriff and the rogue sets up a thieves guild, that's role-playing. The PCs will work out their differences (either by negotiation or combat) and continue. You can expediate this process by continuing to apply subtle pressure in the form of difficult combats; forcing them to work together as well-oiled machines to fight for their lives builds teamwork quickly.

OR

You can dump all this sandbox-is-superior-to-railroad theory and play the game you and your friends like. Might I suggest a good Pathfinder AP?