I want my actions to matter

[Micah Sweet]

You can personally view it that way if you like, but equally valid is the idea that you are just an expert at everything physical, which is what I think is RAI. I person can in fact be an expert at multiple things, so there's no good reason to think that athletics can't produce someone who is an expert at all things physical.

Now, personally I think that expertise would be required to make a PC an expert in a skill, but even so that would still mean that someone with expertise in athletics is an expert climber, swimmer and jumper.

Yes, and RAI is, IMO, rather silly here, having little basis in how people learn.

 

[mamba]

Or if they had just made a skill system independent of how many PCs there happen to be. Why is that even a consideration?

because you do not want a group to suck at 80% of stuff, based on how many skills each player gets and how many skills there are overall

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, and RAI is, IMO, rather silly here, having little basis in how people learn.

This is I think the result of WotC oversimplifying the skill system as a response to 3e. Personally, 3e's skill system was really good if you just gave everyone a minimum of 4 skill points and got rid of the silly cross class skill idea.

 

[pemerton]

Or if they had just made a skill system independent of how many PCs there happen to be. Why is that even a consideration?

Because they're designing a game, with at least one-and-a-half eyes focused on the game play.

Yes, and RAI is, IMO, rather silly here, having little basis in how people learn.

Many versions of D&D bundle expertise in archery and expertise in melee fighting together.

The DEX stat bundles speed (of movement), speed (of reflexes), deftness etc together, so that someone who is good at (say) cartwheels is also good at (say) parlour magic.

The WIS stat means that those who are intuitive in their thinking are also good at spotting ninjas. The INT stat, in 5e D&D, merges Sherlock Holmes and Marie Curie.

Again, this is all with an eye to game play. If, as a GM, you want a NPC who can climb well but is at risk of drowning if they fall from a boat, then you can just write that NPC up that way.

 

[Micah Sweet]

because you do not want a group to suck at 80% of stuff, based on how many skills each player gets and how many skills there are overall

80% is a little hyperbolic I think, as is your definition of "sucking", but if it's a problem, just let people be trained in more skills. I have additional skills in my game, and that's what I do.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because they're designing a game, with at least one-and-a-half eyes focused on the game play.

Many versions of D&D bundle expertise in archery and expertise in melee fighting together.

The DEX stat bundles speed (of movement), speed (of reflexes), deftness etc together, so that someone who is good at (say) cartwheels is also good at (say) parlour magic.

The WIS stat means that those who are intuitive in their thinking are also good at spotting ninjas. The INT stat, in 5e D&D, merges Sherlock Holmes and Marie Curie.

Again, this is all with an eye to game play. If, as a GM, you want a NPC who can climb well but is at risk of drowning if they fall from a boat, then you can just write that NPC up that way.

Too much simplification for me, and too much of an eye on game play.

 

[mamba]

80% is a little hyperbolic I think, as is your definition of "sucking", but if it's a problem, just let people be trained in more skills. I have additional skills in my game, and that's what I do.

So more skills, and more skill points, that works. Not sure I prefer 100 'tiny' skills over 25 'big' skills however, I tend to prefer a less granular scope for skills.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So more skills, and more skill points, that works. Not sure I prefer 100 'tiny' skills over 25 'big' skills however, I tend to prefer a less granular scope for skills.

Do we even have 25 skills now?

 

[mamba]

Do we even have 25 skills now?

No, we have 18. Doesn't change my argument however, unless you say all you want to do is squeeze in a handful more

 

[hawkeyefan]

Too much simplification for me, and too much of an eye on game play.

I mean… it’s a game.