Iconic Outsiders (Tanaari, Baatezu, Yugoloths, Modrons, etc.) - How many species?

[sckeener]

Dragonlance, like the Realms and Eberron, no longer has any real connection to Planescape's Great Wheel.

the Transitive planes still connect to everyone else in WotC's universe and the great wheel still exists....so Dragonlance, the Realms, and Eberron are all still a couple hops away from Planescape.

If you can get from D20 Modern to Dragonlance via the plane of Shadow via WotC's rules, I'd say Krynnfolk can party in Sigil if they want to....

 

[Cam Banks]

the Transitive planes still connect to everyone else in WotC's universe and the great wheel still exists....so Dragonlance, the Realms, and Eberron are all still a couple hops away from Planescape.

If you can get from D20 Modern to Dragonlance via the plane of Shadow via WotC's rules, I'd say Krynnfolk can party in Sigil if they want to....

The Ethereal Sea is wholly outside the "planar bubble" that is Krynn's universe. The Abyss, Hidden Vale, and Dome of Creation form the outer portion of the bubble, with the elemental planes within, and the Gray (the Ethereal Sea) extending into the bubble and separating along planar lines into the transitive planes. Going into or out of the bubble is incredibly difficult, and largely unheard of. The Dragon Overlords made their way into the bubble from the Ethereal Sea, but that was when Takhisis had already moved the planet into the Sea and surrounded it with a necromantic barrier.

The upshot of this is, yeah, you could connect the Krynnish universe to the other D&D worlds, but you don't need to, and it's not an assumed element.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[jgsugden]

As a side note, the inevitables are seen by some as a replacement for the modrons. I don't have time to fig them out, but I'd certainly footnote them under the modrons if I were building this list.

 

[Brakkart]

Heh and those Tanar'ri just keep coming. Just remembered another bunch of them: The Spyder-Fiends from the Rod of Seven Parts box set are a type of tanar'ri. They were also detailed on pages 76-80 of the 2E Monstrous Compendium Annual IV. They are:

*Raklupis
Lycosidilith
Phisarazu
Spithriku
Kakkuu

Not sure, but I think the Creature Catalog did a conversion of these to 3.X

 

[Shemeska]

Dragonlance, like the Realms and Eberron, no longer has any real connection to Planescape's Great Wheel.

Of course it then gets my mind to thinking about why Dragonlance in 3e went for a new cosmology. Was it an active design decision to retroactively strip it out of the Great Wheel? Was the license to use the Great Wheel simply not offered to them? Or if offered, was the pricetag associated with using a cosmology that by its very nature linked to and referenced multiple other settings and IP licenses?

I would suspect it's a mixture of at least two of those, but who am I to know. In any event, the nature of Krynn natives tending to lump anything evil and not from Krynn as being from 'The Abyss', it tended to make them look like illiterate yokels once they actually got onto the planes and noticed just how badly their conceptions clashed with the metaphysical reality of what was out there.

But of course, I'd have no problem with a PC from Krynn in my campaigns at all. That said, if I ran a 3e DL game, I'd use the Great Wheel cosmology just because of the depth of material that has been established for it; makes for great planar campaigns. If you don't intend to use the planes much, cosmology doesn't matter, but if you intend to have them as an active backdrop for the campaign, the Wheel is just juicy for such (which is why the 3e FR cosmology rubs me so poorly, in that its conception it tends to actively hamper the planes being used for adventuring, as most of the 'planes' are micromanaged deific domains rather than infinite expanses of manifest alignment and ideology).

 

[BOZ]

Heh and those Tanar'ri just keep coming. Just remembered another bunch of them: The Spyder-Fiends from the Rod of Seven Parts box set are a type of tanar'ri. They were also detailed on pages 76-80 of the 2E Monstrous Compendium Annual IV. They are:

*Raklupis
Lycosidilith
Phisarazu
Spithriku
Kakkuu

Not sure, but I think the Creature Catalog did a conversion of these to 3.X

indeed! as well as the Queen and Miska.

 

[victorysaber]

sckeener - Added those in your list in. Didn't add the Orlath because he doesn't have "Tanar'ri" stated anywhere in his stats (usually Tanar'ri will have it either in their name for 3.0, or in their subtypes for 3.5). Thanks!

Brakkart - Not adding demodands man, sorry... their iconic outsider position has been usurped already.


Updated it to reflect unique outsiders like Demogorgon, Orcus, with a #. The most powerful non-unique outsiders are still *.

 

[victorysaber]

Anyone have a list of unique outsiders & source, btw? Preferably good outsiders too.

 

[sckeener]

sckeener - Added those in your list in. Didn't add the Orlath because he doesn't have "Tanar'ri" stated anywhere in his stats (usually Tanar'ri will have it either in their name for 3.0, or in their subtypes for 3.5). Thanks!

Good catch. thanks. here's another for the Baatezu
Book \ Name\ Baatezu \ page # \ CR
Champions of Ruin \ Malkizid, the Branded King \ Baatezu \ 155\ 27

 

[Cam Banks]

Of course it then gets my mind to thinking about why Dragonlance in 3e went for a new cosmology. Was it an active design decision to retroactively strip it out of the Great Wheel? Was the license to use the Great Wheel simply not offered to them? Or if offered, was the pricetag associated with using a cosmology that by its very nature linked to and referenced multiple other settings and IP licenses?

The current planar cosmology is the same as the one originally used in Dragonlance Adventures, in 1st edition. In other words, we just went back to how things were to begin with, before Manual of the Planes threw them all into the same pot.

So yes, this was an active decision. It more closely reflects how things are represented in the novels, where it took an evil wizard and a good cleric working together in order to get into the Abyss.

Cheers,
Cam