Iconic Spells and Levels

[steeldragons]

Hey, what the heck? No animate dead?

6 spell per level AIN'T gonna work for wizards.

I'd be pretty happy seeing animate dead as a ritual.

Yeah, leaving Animate Dead out of the spell lists (for mages and/or clerics) was a tough decision.

Here's my thinking on that...Since we don't yet know how specialist mages are going to work...if they are going along with 6 spells/level, I suspect that any specialist mage (or specialty cleric/priest) is going to be getting their own spell lists.

So, I left out Animate Dead from the "general" iconic list but would completely expect to see it in a "Necromancer" class/theme spell list or a cleric/priest list for those dealing with a Death/Undeath type god domain/sphere. Same with all of the rest of specifically Necromantic spells (Dt. Undead, Chill Touch, Enervation, Hold Undead, etc.) and the more specifically "Illusionist" spells, the more specific/powerful divinations abjurations, conjurations, etc. etc.

But i thoroughly like the idea/compromise of having Animate Dead (or other things people have suggested, like Planar Binding, Dimensional Anchor, the "Summonings" -which I would like to see severely cut back in use- et al) to be available in Ritual form that any mage or priest could conceivably find/figure out how to use/cast. But for a "on the fly spell" they would be left for their specialist casters.

That work for everyone?

Though I might replace Bigby's crushing hand above with wail of the banshee. And planar binding kinda doesn't work on the list above as it requires dimensional anchor and magic circle against x.

True, I had completely forgotten about those. If we are talking "iconic D&D spells" then I think the Bigby's and the Mordenkainen's need to be incorporated somehow. And who wants to give up Melf's Acid Arrow? lol. They really are iconic of the game.

I very much wanted to include Floating Disc (a.k.a. Tenser's Floating Disc") in the 1st level slots...but the other 6 I used just didn't allow room. I would certainly include it in the "conjuration" or maybe even "evocation" (generating a disc of solid energy) spealist slots.

They definitely could cut down on the list by combining spells as Falling Icicle said, but why not the energy spells too (i.e. Blast spell, pick element, area as you level). Of course, I'm sure they won't because it's not D&Dish.

Oh, i agree with that. You might notice I combined quite a few spells to sneak an few extra applications...Resist Fire or Cold being the same spell. If they include Burning Hands in the original 6, I see no reason that couldn't be "Burning or Chilling/Frosting Hands"...one way of casting it shoots fans of flame, the other shoots fans of frost or shards of ice and cold damage, etc. For that matter, I've never understood Haste and Slow being two separate spells as opposed to a single reversible "Limited Time Control" that you either sped up or slowed down as needed.

So, yes, you can certainly get more than 6 uses/applications (maybe 8 or even 10 depending on the "base spells") out of 6 spell slots.

-SD

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I would very, very much like to see a system in which spells have different effects depending on what level you are, or what level you prepare them as, however the underlying system works. I think this is preferable to a series of similar spells that form a chain. I'll give some examples, trying to work in some iconic spells:

Fire
1st level - provides light and sets fire to combustible materials (lasts some duration)
2nd level - can be thrown at a single target to deal damage
3rd level - can be thrown to explode over a small area
4th level - as 2nd level but doesn't end the spell
5th level - can be projected into a wall of fire
6th level - as 3rd level but doesn't end spell
7th level - can form an elemental (as a summoning)
8th level - the floor is made of lava?
9th level - can cause fire to rain down everywhere, explosions and damage etc.

Force
1st level - fire a magic missile at someone
2nd level - create a force shield
3rd level - create a force weapon
4th level - force shield protects against magic
5th level - create a force barrier
6th level - grapple/restrict an opponent with force
7th level - force weapon can act independently
8th level - trap an opponent with force
9th level - create impenetrable barrier of force

Obviously these are vague, but hopefully you spot some familiar spell effects. I think you could even often different effects at some levels (so, either your 3rd level fire spell can be a fireball, or it can be a fire shield whilst you hold it, or maybe feats can provide passive effects like this). It's a chance to redefine what the main themes of magic are in D&D.. because up until now it's been more or less 'anything you can think up, only tradition means you get exploding fire before any kind of cold effect' and so on.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

0th: arcane mark, detect magic, ghost sound, light, mage hand, prestidigitation

1st: burning hands, charm person, feather fall, grease, magic missile, silent image

2nd: invisibility, knock, levitate, melf's acid arrow, mirror image, web

3rd: dispel magic, fireball, fly, haste, lightning bolt, slow

4th: animate dead, arcane eye, charm monster, dimension door, polymorph, wall of fire/ice

5th: cloudkill, cone of cold, dominate person, telekinesis, teleport, wall of force

6th: chain lightning, disintegrate, flesh to stone, planar binding, true seeing, wall of iron

7th: delayed blast fireball, finger of death, greater scrying, mordenkainen's sword, reverse gravity, spell turning

8th: clone, horrid wilting, iron body, maze, Otto's irresistible dance, polymorph any object,

9th: bigby's crushing hand, gate, meteor swarm, mordenkainen's disjunction, time stop, wish

great list, I would take charm and scry spells and make them just 1 spell that get better with higher level slots, the ssame with delayed blast fireball just being a higher slot... make Mage armor, and sheild in there some way too.

 

[Szatany]

I would very, very much like to see a system in which spells have different effects depending on what level you are, or what level you prepare them as, however the underlying system works. I think this is preferable to a series of similar spells that form a chain. I'll give some examples, trying to work in some iconic spells:

Force
1st level - fire a magic missile at someone
2nd level - create a force shield
3rd level - create a force weapon
4th level - force shield protects against magic
5th level - create a force barrier
6th level - grapple/restrict an opponent with force
7th level - force weapon can act independently
8th level - trap an opponent with force
9th level - create impenetrable barrier of force

I don't think it will be as compact as you're proposing. Taking force magic, for example, IMO it will be closer to something like this:

Force Missile (level 1)
Fire a magic missile at someone
Level+1: One extra missile (at the same or different target)
Level+1: Missiles hit automatically
Level+1: +30 ft. range
Level+1: Missiles deal damage to structures
Level+2: Missiles are blunt and push targets instead of dealing damage
Level+4: Fire a magic missile at each enemy within 20 ft.
Level+8: Fire a missile at each enemy within 50 ft.

Force Shield (level 2)
Create a force shield that protects you
Level+1: Increase duration
Level+1: Force shield can be passed to others
Level+1: Shield grants bonus vs. spells
Level+1: Shield reduces falling damage
Level+2: Cast at yourself and another target
Level+5: Cast at all allies within 20 ft.
Level+7: Cast at all allies within 50 ft.

Force Weapon (level 3)
Creates a force weapon
Level+1: Increase duration
Level+1: Increase damage dealt
Level+1: Create an exotic weapon
Level+1: Create one additional weapon
Level+1: Wielder is automatically proficient with the weapon created
Level+2: Weapon flies in the air, fights by itself
Level+4: Create 10 force weapons
Level+6: Create 50 force weapons

Wall of Force (level 5)
Create a force barrier
Level+1: Extend the size of the wall
Level+1: Longer duration
Level+1: Wall has more HP and higher hardness
Level+2: You can walk through your wall
Level+2: Wall has spikes

Force Hand (level 6)
Creates huge flying hand of force
Level+1: Hand's combat statistics improve
Level+1: Increase duration
Level+1: Use hand for finer manipulation, is now useful in construction
Level+1: Use hand as a flying vessel

Force Trap (level 7)
Traps a target with force.
Level+1: Increase duration
Level+1: Increase trap's HP and hardness
Level+1: Trap has spikes (on the inside, on the outside, or both)

 

[am181d]

I'm hoping for spells spread out over all 20 levels. Ideally, I'd like "level" to mean one thing in 5e. Perhaps a pipe dream...

 

[GX.Sigma]

I would very, very much like to see a system in which spells have different effects depending on what level you are, or what level you prepare them as, however the underlying system works. I think this is preferable to a series of similar spells that form a chain. I'll give some examples, trying to work in some iconic spells:

-snip-

I don't think it makes sense for one "spell" to be completely different spell based on what spell level you cast it as. If the effects are different, why not have separate spells?

More likely, it'll be something like this:

Magic Missile
Sor/Wiz 1+
Fires bolts of force which unerringly hit their target(s) for 1d4+1 damage each. One missile is fired for each spell level. (i.e., when cast as a 1st-level spell, one missile is fired; 2nd-level, two missiles; etc. Each missile can be directed at any target in range.)

Charm
Sor/Wiz 1+, Brd 1+
Saving throw: CHA negates
This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally. When cast as a higher level spell, it can be used for greater effects:

Sor/Wiz 4, Brd 2 - Charm Monster: Charm effect is not limited by creature type.
Sor/Wiz 5, Brd 2 - Dominate Person: If cast on a humanoid, the target is dominated.
Sor/Wiz 9 - Dominate Monster: Domination effect is not limited by creature type.

​

Summon Monster
Brd 1+, Clr 1+, Sor/Wiz 1+
Summons an extraplanar creature. Your choices of creature are determined by the spell level:

1: [1st-level summons]
2: [2nd-level summons]
etc...

​

Animate Dead
Clr 3+, Death 3+, Sor/Wiz 4+
This spell turns the bodies or bones of dead creatures into undead monsters that follow your commands. The types of undead you can create this way are dependent on the spell level:

Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 4: Skeleton, zombie
Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 6: Ghoul, ghast, mummy, mohrg
Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 8: Shadow, wraith, specter, devourer
​

 

[Falling Icicle]

If they are going to have the option to cast spells using higher level spell slots for increased effects, not unlike augmentable psionic powers in 3.5, why even have spell slots at all? Why not just use spell points? Maybe wizards could prepare a certain number of spells each day, and then their spell points would determine how often they could use them (and at what power level). Having to worry about spells per day plus having to prepare spells in advance plus having to worry about not just which spells you're going to prepare, but which spell slots to prepare them in, seems to me to be an overly complicated mess.

 

[steeldragons]

Having to worry about spells per day plus having to prepare spells in advance plus having to worry about not just which spells you're going to prepare, but which spell slots to prepare them in, seems to me to be an overly complicated mess.

It is a huuuuge imposition, isn't it? Magic is harrrrd! Hmmm, maybe that's why Fighters (and most other classes) don't/shouldn't use it.

The MU credo, play smart (i.e. choose your spells wisely) or go home (i.e. don't adventure).

 

[steeldragons]

double post