ICV2 numbers from GAMA are interesting

[TrippyHippy]

Not that surprising, for me. It’s D20-based games (sometimes with big licences), followed by the usual Vampire, Alien and Cyberpunk game lines.

 

[Parmandur]

Not that surprising, for me. It’s D20-based games (sometimes with big licences), followed by the usual Vampire, Alien and Cyberpunk game lines.

Cosmere and Daggerheart are not really d20 engine games.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Cosmere and Daggerheart are not really d20 engine games.

Ok, maybe not Daggerheart, although I thought Cosmere did. Neither are interesting RPGs to me though, so I concede to anybody who knows more. I may have just have seen most of their promotion through D&D-based communities, I guess.

 

[aramis erak]

Question, does anybody know if these numbers still exclude online/direct/amazon sales? From what I can see, as of 2023 they excluded everything but hobby store retail + KS $.

ICV2 only counts retail self-reporting, historically. I doubt they've changed that.

 

[Morrus]

Cosmere and Daggerheart are not really d20 engine games.

I've no idea about Cosmere, but Daggerheart is well known for being a d12 system with it's hope and fear dice.

 

[Morrus]

I don’t know, Matt Coleville does not even bother getting into retail shelves because those sales are so minimal that it is not worth it, and based on his statements he thinks that this is / should be true for basically any TTRPG. D&D (and maybe one or two others) being likely exceptions to the rule

Bear in mind that everything is relative. The sales may be minimal compared to the $4M MCDM tends to make on crowdfunders, but not compared to the < $100K most products make. I would wager that retail makes a larger percentage of our overall revenue than of MCDM's. That said, distro is by far the lowest -- for us it goes our store > crowdfunders > DTRPG > retail distribution.

(Not counting other assorted bits like conventions, bundles of holding, and stuff like that).

 

[Parmandur]

Ok, maybe not Daggerheart, although I thought Cosmere did. Neither are interesting RPGs to me though, so I concede to anybody who knows more. I may have just have seen most of their promotion through D&D-based communities, I guess.

Cosmere uses a d20 core mechanic, but it is not a variation of the "d20 system" any more than Runequest and Rolemastwr are the same system.

 

[Parmandur]

I've no idea about Cosmere, but Daggerheart is well known for being a d12 system with it's hope and fear dice.

Yup, Daggerheart is a pretty creative 2d12 resolution system.

Cosmere uses a roll over d20 resolution system, so the math in the core mechanic is not un-D&D-ish, but other than a surface level of the GM asking a player to roll a d20 for action resolution it is not a 3E/5E derived system overall.

 

[Parmandur]

I don’t know, Matt Coleville does not even bother getting into retail shelves because those sales are so minimal that it is not worth it, and based on his statements he thinks that this is / should be true for basically any TTRPG. D&D (and maybe one or two others) being likely exceptions to the rule

Honestly, thinking more about these details...kind of feels like the Lady doth protest too much...

 

[mamba]

Honestly, thinking more about these details...kind of feels like the Lady doth protest too much...

I believe he knows what he is doing. He does challenge the ‘common wisdom’ but does so based on data rather than feelings. In a recent chat he talked about how everyone told him not to do a KS in December, but since his sales data showed them that December is their best month, he decided to go ahead anyway.

Pretty sure he could get his game into stores, so when he says that he is not interested in doing so / it is not worth the effort, I trust that he knows what he is talking about