Ideas for a fighter-rogue

[zeroparadigm]

Hey, all. For starters, I'm AMAZED by what the forum residents here can do with characters. Consider me the subjected to a charm person.

Anyhow:

I need to build a new character for a long-running campaign, standard 3.5E rules. level would be 13-15 I'm thinking. Probably human, or maybe human with a template, or something. Attributes on a 10 base + 24 buyout, + advancement. Books would be anything WotC, and though more mainstream is better, I'm not afraid to take a few levels from a class or three out of an eberron, FR, etc. book.

My original concept was for a rogue-based dagger throwing guy, with maybe some fighter levels for feats(?) & a few levels of magic user for enhancment (true strike, invisibility, blur, illusion spells, whatever), which I think I prefer to a more item-based (ie Use Magic Device) approach. - but that's not to say I couldn't combine the two.

Talking it over with the DM, we tossed around ideas for a custom PrC, again, focused on daggers, that would allow Arcane-Archer-esque enhancement of thrown weapons, and maybe enabling the PC to have an equivalent of the hail of arrows ability - but for daggers (yeah, that's like the epic storm of throws feat, but if the ability is restricted {ie just daggers for instance} enough, the DM has said he's alright with it). One nice aspect of this is that my DM's willing to bend the rules a little to have certian abilities and feats meant for archery applicable in this case. Which is a plus.


Feats that I've looked at include:
Flick of the Wrist
Ranged Disarm
Ranged Pin
Ranged Sunder
Prone attack
Throw anything
sharpshooting
blind-fighting
combat reflexes
combat expertise
dodge
far shot
improved crit
improved init
manyshot
point blank shot
precise shot
rapid shot
spring attack
weapon finesse
weapon focus
weapon specialization
Also, the feat sequence that allows a character to catch arrows & other thrown weapons and then throw them back.
There's also a lot of cool stuff like ranged sneak attack that I'd love to be able to pull off (seriously, knife throwing rogues I think, REQUIRE ranged sneak attack I'm pretty sure), but I also have a lot of dreams for this character and only so many levels.


I've looked for inspiration in the following classes -

Arcane Archer (DMG)
Whisper Knife (Races of the wild)
Peerless Archer (FR - Shining South)
Master Thrower (Complete Warrior)

Anyhow, my main concern isn't making a build that's a total gamebreaker, but rather a character who has a lot up his sleeve - a little magic and maybe some breaking and entering & disguise (rouge skill points) for instance, but who is going to be able to hold his own in a melee and maybe get in some devastating sneak attacks here & there as well.

So: I'm soliciting for help. Rewards for character build ideas include my gratitude, I guess.

Thanks in Advance!

Zero

 

[FEADIN]

You forgot the very good :Shot on the run feat.
About ranged sneak attack the only special condition is that the target must be 30' or less (above the others conditions).
If you want to throw a lot don't take weapon finesse and take a good strength, the good combination with base classes would be human figther 6 / rogue 7, a good combination of feats and skills, 4 dices of sneak, 4 fighter feats, +11 base attack.....

 

[Shellman]

Some ideas here:

There is a shadow creature template out of The Lords of Madness that you can apply to any humoid creature. It is something like a +2 or +3 LA, but thats usaually ok with a melee guy. It provides some really nice abilities like Shadow Blend, which grants concealment (50% miss chance) whenever you are in anything other than daylight or a daylight spell. plus some other gret avbilities based on the number of your HD.

Here is a Shelzari Knife Fighter PrC out of the Shalzar City Source Book from the Scarred Lands Campaign Setting. It kind fits your dagger wielding rogue build. It is best when used with monk levels, but a rogue could fit in nicely with this class.

Shelzari Knife Fighter it was 3.0 so you need to modify this if you want it 3.5

Hit Dice: d10

Requirements:

BAB: +6
Feats: Ambidexterity, Comabt Reflexes, Dodge Two Wepon Fighting, Weapon Focus Dagger

Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Jump, Perform, Sense Motive, Spot, Tumble


Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Knife Fighter is proficient with all knives/ daggers but no armor.

Monk AC Bonus: When the knife Fighter is not wearing armor or using a shield she recieves an AC bonus as a monk of the same level as her knife fighter level. If the knife fighter also has monk levels (or some other class that grants monk-like AC bonus), these levels stack for the purpose of determining the knife fighters total AC bonus. However, the knife fighter does not gain the monks wsidom bonus to AC.

Uncanny Dodge (ex): This ability is identical to the rogues uncanny dodge ability. At 1st level, the knife fighter retains her Dex bonus (if any) to AC even while flat footed. At 3rd Level, the knife fighter cannot be flanked, except by a character who also has this ability and is at least 4 levels higher than the knife fighter.

If a knife fighter already has this abiltiy from a previous class, those levels stack for determing her total level of her uncanny dodge ability.

Puissant Strike (Ex): At 2nd level a knife fighter gains the ability to strike with deadly precisionwhen weilding a knives or daggers, dealing 1d4 points of additional damage with any hit using such a weapon. This ability works like the rogue sneak attack ability. This ability only works against creatures with discernable anatomies; any creature immune to critical hits (undead, constructs, plants, oozesand incorpereal creatures)is invulnerable to a pussaint strike, and any item or ability that protects creatures from critical hits (like armor of fortification) also pretects the creature froma puissant strike. This ability applies to thrown knives, but only if the target is within 30 ft. At every third level gained after 2nd, the extra damage for pussaint strikeincreases by +1d4.

Flurry of Blades (Ex): this abililty functionslike the monks flurry of blows ability accept it applies to knives and daggers.

Improved Critical (Ex): At 3rd level the knife fighter is so skilled that the threat range of her weapons is increased by 1 point.At every third level gained after 3rd level, the threat range increase by 1 more point. This ability does not stack with the Improved Critical Feat or with the weapon enhancemant ability "keen weapon".

Improved Two Weapon Fighting: At 4th level the fighter gains the Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat (if she does not already have it).

Imbue Knife (Su): The spiritual bond between the knife fighter and her knives is so close that it has developed a supernatural quality; as long as the knife fighter holds a knife, it effectively gains a +1 enhancement bonus. This bonus only applies while the knife fighter uses knives in melee, but not if she throws the knives. At 10th level this ability improves to a +2 enhancement for the knife fighter.

Dexterous Parry (Ex): At 7th levl the knife fighter gains a dodge bonus to AC equal to her knife fighter level, if the knife fighter chooses to fight defensively.

Phase Knife (Su): At 10th Level, as long as a knife fighter holds her knives, they effectively gain the ghost touch ability and ingnore armor as if they were also a brilliant energy weapon. This ability applies if she uses knives in melee, but not if she throws them.

Table 4-1:

Level / BAB / Fort / Ref / Will / Special
1 / +1 / +0 / +2 / +0 / Monk AC bonus, Uncanny Dodge
2 / +2 / +0 / +3 / +0 / Puissant Strike +1d4, Flurry of Blades
3 / +3 / +1 / +3 / +1 / Uncanny Dodge, Improved Critical 1
4 / +4 / +1 / +4 / +1 / Improved TWF
5 / +5 / +1 / +4 / +1 / Puissant Strike +2d4
6 / +6 / +2 / +5 / +2 / Improved Critical 2
7 / +7 / +2 / +5 / +2 / Imbue Knife +1, Dexterous Perry
8 / +8 / +2 / +6 / +2 / Puissant Strike +3d4
9 / +9 / +3 / +6 / +3 / Improved Critical 3
10 / +10 / +3 / +7 / +3 / Imbue Knife +2, Phase Knife

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I don't normally like to build other people's characters, but I'll throw out a suggestion and let you build it if you would like.

Here's where I would go:

Halfling (For the bonus with thrown weapons)
Fighter 2 (For the feats)
Scout 4 (To get the skills and the BAB needed for master thrower) [Scout is Complete Adventurer]
Master Thrower 5 (Any throw trick, but for the rest of this build assume Doubletoss and Two with One Blow)

There is 11 levels. If not using Complete books, then substitue Rogue for Scout. You can ask the DM if Scout can replace Rogue as the Halfling's favored class and thus avoid any possible XP penalties ... some DM's do this with regard to Complete material, some do not.

For the other 2-4 levels, you could pick up more scout ... or go with the Highland Stalker PrC. The PrC would allow you to increase your skirmish damage/AC and get a higher BAB than Scout ... but you would have to pick up TRACK as a feat along the way.

But, here's the kicker. Pick any weapon and skils to fill out your character. But your halfling fights with daggers, and they are stored in a Heward's Handy Haversack. That item enhances the power of the Quick Draw feat from the Master Thrower class and imagine all the gear AND daggers you could store in that thing. Especially remembering that a halfling uses small daggers. Another advantage to this build is that the dagger is a thrown weapon or melee, so you are never caught without something to do. Pick up a crossbow if you want range.

Now, you can finish the build and personalize it for your touch.

 

[Bryon_Soulweaver]

If its a FR campaign, I suggest you look at Netheril: Empire of Magic. Start of with rogue at first level, ask you DM if you can have Cantras (just say that your family can be traced to Netheril). It might not be a powerful ability, but it helps somewhat if you want to clean your weapons and armor, cook, ect.

 

[zeroparadigm]

awesome

These are all totally fantastic so far - Keep 'em coming, they're much appreciated.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

You can throw something with each hand, so the Two-Weapon Fighting chain might be something to look at.

 

[Finley DaDum]

Build using Daggerspell Mage

If you really want to maximize spellcasting with this concept I think Daggerspell mage might work out for ya (CAdv.31-34).

Heres the build Im thinking:
Human, Dexterity and Intelligence as high as possible (build assumes at least Int 16)
Rogue 1 - Point Blank Shot, 2 Weapon Fighting, Sleight of Hand-4 (If you are looking at other prestige classes make sure you do your skills right at this level).
Fighter 1- Rapid Shot or Precise Shot
Wizard/Sorcerer 1- Practiced Spellcaster, Spellcraft-4, Concentration-2
Fighter 2- Weapon Focus Dagger
Wizard/Sorcerer 2- Concentration 8
Daggerspell Mage 1-8 Rapid Shot or Precise Shot, Quick Draw?

At Character Level 13 - You have a BAB of +9/+4, Caster Ability of 9th level, Caster Level of 13, Sneak Attack +3d6 (w/another die next level) and some very nice abilities including my favorite Arcane Throw combined with Double Daggercast you can deliver 2 Melee touch spells at range using your daggers.

From here you can take the last two levels of Daggerspell mage for the Daggerspell Flurry, or you can go into Master Thrower or some other prestige class. Arcane trickster might be cool too though it would take a lot of cross classing skills (or a 1 level dip in rogue or the like to grab the skill requirements.

Up next: "Dexterity?? we don't need no stinking dexterity!"

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Human, Dexterity and Intelligence as high as possible (build assumes at least Int 16)
Rogue 1
Fighter 1
Wizard/Sorcerer 1
Fighter 2
Wizard/Sorcerer 2
Daggerspell Mage 1

not a bad build, but it should be pointed out that this build has 3 base classes. Even with this person being a human, that's still one too many. With the 3rd class coming at the third level, technically this build should take into account the XP penalties that this should result with and therefore be a lower level.

Now, if you get a DM who is gracious enough to ignore the XP penalty for the unplayed levels, you still are going to be subject to XP earned once you actually play this character. Unless your DM ignores the multiclassing rule and penalty altogether. At which point, please ignore my previous comment!

If you like the daggerspell mage and you want to avoid the XP penalties, go with a class like spelltheif or hexblade that allows some casting and gives a good/average BAB. That way you can avoid XP penalties. Granted, neither the spelltheif or the hexblade are what I would call great casters......

 

[Jack Simth]

not a bad build, but it should be pointed out that this build has 3 base classes. Even with this person being a human, that's still one too many. With the 3rd class coming at the third level, technically this build should take into account the XP penalties that this should result with and therefore be a lower level.

Now, if you get a DM who is gracious enough to ignore the XP penalty for the unplayed levels, you still are going to be subject to XP earned once you actually play this character. Unless your DM ignores the multiclassing rule and penalty altogether. At which point, please ignore my previous comment!

If you like the daggerspell mage and you want to avoid the XP penalties, go with a class like spelltheif or hexblade that allows some casting and gives a good/average BAB. That way you can avoid XP penalties. Granted, neither the spelltheif or the hexblade are what I would call great casters......

They are all within one level of each other - no multiclass xp penalties; if the character is human (or selects a race such that the class the character wants to advance further in is favored) then the character can pick a class to bring up significantly above the rest.