Ideas for a too-multiclassed character

moritheil said:
Abjurant Champion sounds more and more like a class to look into.
Agree. If it's AC she wants, and shield is her tool, Abjurant Champion (C.Mage) is in her future. Her skills will suffer, though. Unseen Seer (same book) has a lot more skill points.

Make sure she takes the Ranger variant class feature in PHB-II which drops her animal companion. Very nice when she can't use her Sneak Attack.

Cheers, -- N
 

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How about Eldritch Knight if the GM will allow her to drop the 'Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells' prerequisite? Or recast her character as a Ranger 4 / Bard 7 and then take Eldritch Knight?
 

Too bad she can't redo the character entirely - a scout would have been better choice than a ranger/rogue,.

Since the PC is designed around movement - it is a pretty good fit.

A scout (Complete Adventurer) gets to to do "skirmish" damage if moving at least 10 ft in a round. The class also gets tumble as a class skill to boot.

It is awful difficult to make adjustments with 3 classes (none of which are "favored") without having a whole lot of restrictions popping up.
 

Quartz said:
How about Eldritch Knight
It sucks. Don't do that to her.

Abjurant Champion is better, as is Spellsword (C.War), Dragonslayer (Draconomicon), Unseen Seer (C.Mage), one level of Mindbender (C.Arc), Daggerspell Mage (C.Adv), or Knight Phantom (Five Nations).

Cheers, -- N
 

carborundum said:
We miss the area effects but I doubt the rogue/ ranger/ sorceror will ever get a high enough caster level to fill this gap now.

She's Chaotic Neutral and prone to teasing bad guys to focus on her, then avoiding everything. She's more about the tumbling and the stabbing than worrying about traps and stuff. Anything cool and flashy would be perfect. I thought Shadowdancer but she never put ranks in Dance.
Hm. She could retrain her last Ranger level into another Rogue level, grab up the needed 5 ranks in Perform (Dance), and then use her pending level-up to become a 1st-level Shadowdancer. Not sure it'd really help, though. And she'd need to have the 3 feats already.

Doesn't sound like she'd be able to qualify for Arcane Trickster, given the not-so-great-with-traps-and-stuff bit. It might fit her concept a bit better, but she'd need 2 more levels of Sorcerer and several ranks in the required skills first, which would probably mean 1-2 more levels of Rogue as well.

The best I can think of, since I don't have Complete Mage or the like, would be to suggest she retrain her last Ranger level into a Sorcerer level, then use her level-up to add another Sorcerer level. Learn Scorching Ray if she doesn't already know it, and Lightning Bolt or Fireball to help out the group with area-attacks. And Invisibility if she can, to allow for some occasional Scorching Ray sneak attacks (remember, when you cast that spell, the rays are fired simultaneously, so each one gets sneak attack damage dice if the targets are denied a Dexterity bonus to AC against it).

Remember that Sorcerers in 3.5 can replace an earlier-learned spell at certain class levels, take advantage of it if needed (she can swap out a 1st-level spell at 6th-level in the class). Take the Practiced Spellcaster feat, from Complete Arcane I think?, as her 12th-level feat, to increase her Sorcerer caster level by +4 for purposes of spell effects; this'll make her Lightning Bolts do 10d6 damage, for example, and give her 2 rays from each casting of Scorching Ray. So doubling up the sneak attack dice with it, when she gets surprise or something. And if she knows Magic Missile, it'll go up to 4d4+4 damage.

Spend skill points cross-class to get some ranks in the needed skills for Arcane Trickster, and learn Mage Hand if she doesn't already know it, as a prerequisite for the prestige class. Then, next time she levels up, add 1 more Rogue level to finish buying up the needed skill ranks (if she gets enough skill points, given however many ranks she may or may not already have in the skills). Take another Rogue level after that if needed. Then enter Arcane Trickster, to continue advancing caster levels and Sneak Attack, along with getting Impromptu Sneak Attack and Ranged Legerdemain.

Retraining the 3rd Ranger level later on would probably be useful, to get another Rogue level out of it.
 

Nifft said:
It sucks. Don't do that to her.

Abjurant Champion is better, as is Spellsword (C.War), Dragonslayer (Draconomicon), Unseen Seer (C.Mage), one level of Mindbender (C.Arc), Daggerspell Mage (C.Adv), or Knight Phantom (Five Nations).

Ugh... Spellsword is good for a max. 3-level dip, no more. Half caster level hurts pretty much.

Well I'd suggest retraining those ranger levels into Sorcerer, and go Unseen Seer. It's a really nice class.
 

Kat' said:
Ugh... Spellsword is good for a max. 3-level dip, no more. Half caster level hurts pretty much.
I'd suggest exactly ONE level. Also exactly ONE level of Mindbender. Then she can cast 3rd level spells, and the door is open to many more PrCs.

Cheers, -- N
 

I also vote for Abjurant Champion. It will make her strong both in melee and spell casting. But the prerequisite for this class includes Combat Casting. So, if she does not have it, she should continue to take another level of rogue to be a 12th-level character before start to take this prestige class.

Also, if she does go this way, your party will lose someone who can deal with traps of appropriate level to the party. I can think of two ways to solve this.

1: Arcane Trickster

After taking 2 levels of Abjurant Champion, she can qualify for this class. If she continue to be a mage/rogue type, this is not a bad choice indeed. Don't forget to take Practiced Spellcaster feat anyway.

2: Someone Take a cohort.

Some party member can take Leadership feat at 12th level to have a Rogue or Scout cohort.

Edit: By the way, even if all fails, you can still use "rebuilding" rules in PHB2.
 

I guess if I were in her shoes I would drop the Ranger and go with Rogue 5/Sorcerer 6. Then look into Daggerspell Mage PrC.

Because ultimately I can't see why she is even wanting the ranger part. It just doesn't fit her concept based on what you have told us.

If possible pick up Arcane Strike feat to channel spells through her weapons.

And look into some AoE and buff spells as well.

Invisibility, Fireball, Bull's Strength things like that are good ideas for spells.
 

carborundum said:
We've been playing Red hand of doom and beat the final bad guy tonight. (Hooray!). The DM is going to continue the campaign for a bit since we're very attached to the characters now, and we're going to go after some loose ends involving lions.

Thing is, my friends character is getting steadily less effective because of the multiclassing. She's an Elf Ranger 4/ Rogue 3/ Sorceror 4 now. In the beginning it was a great combi but not any more.

Before the next session, he can let her retrain a level and we also are going up a level, so that creates options.

Have you any suggestions, maybe a prestige class or something? She's good at most skills, likes jumping and tumbling and sneaking and bluffing, and with Shield up and her top DEX, she makes a great, unhittable 'tank'. In the right position, the 2d6 sneak every attack is nice, but with her strength and shortswords, it's the only time she hurts people.

If you need any stats or numbers I can find them all out. He asked me to ask around for tips and ideas - so we're all ears.

What are looking for melee damage, BAB, or defenses like DR?
 

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