Ideas for Creative Casting? Balanced Magic System?

[rootbeergnome]

I am a big fan of spontaneous casting, I love the flavor of a Caster pulling power from unknown(or known) sources and weaving them together into a cohesive spell. I think it is kind of hokey sometimes that wizards are always casting the same spells, i mean, i understand that Magic Missile is a staple of Dungeons and Dragons, but gimme a break!
I have been trying to develop a system for some time that lets casters create spells "on the fly" the biggest problem with this is that they often become too powerful and cause game balance issues (in layman's terms: they often cause the DM to go into fits and choke his players, or to repeatedly hit himself in the head with a tack-hammer for creating such an abomination.) I have been reading some old and new game books for ideas, such as the Wheel of Time campaign book. The spellcasting mechanic contained within is beautiful, but still not quite what i am looking for. I have also read the old Ars Magica books which gave me much inspiration but little hope for balancing a new type of caster with melee classes in the D20 system.
So I was thinking of kind of having level dependent disciplines or circles of types of magic, and skills associated with magic. Like Ars Magica, but more balanced. Like Create, Control, Destroy, etc, and then with something added like Fire, Earth, Mutation, Enchantment, etc, but the problem is still balance, i have to have concrete walls that let the player of the caster know exactly what they can or cannot do, but at the same time will allow much more creativity than the current system. I know there are some brilliant players and DMs here that have ideas that will help me to do this, so please post your ideas for making a system like this work. Thanks in advance.

-RB Gnome

 

[gfunk]

Next time you're in the local RPG store leaf through a copy of Mage: The Awakening from White Wolf. It could give you some useful ideas.

In this RPG, mages can create nearly any type of effect. But interestingly the more outlandish and unnatural it is, the more likely the mage will suffer th effects of "Paradox," a magical backlash.

So for instance, if a mage is in a gas station and sets a spark off to blow up the whole thing -- this is a reasonable use of magick. However, throwing fireballs down the street is dangerous . . .

 

[Horacio]

I still prefer Ars Magica system. Elegant, simple, powerful...
In my opinion, it's the best!

 

[Eternalknight]

See if you can grab a hold of an old RPG called Maelstrom (it was a blue novel-sized book). It has something like what you want.

 

[pensiv]

gfunk, the Mage magic system was actually based off of the Ars Magica magic system.

 

[Voneth]

For your research:


Castle Falkenstein
5th Age, Dragon Lance -- SAGA system
GURPS, Rune Magic & Cantrip varient rules
Mage
Ars Magica
Champions

You are looking for the Holy Grail in gaming. A lot of people would love a DND system with your goals in mind, but such flexiblity usualy allows for abuse by rules lawyers and we know that DND has never attracted rules lawyers.

Part of it may also be what is considered abusive your game may be just fine in mine. A flexible system also rewards creativity, which some other classes sort preclude don't allow for such input in DND (A monk in DND and a Marital Artists in Feng Shui are two different beasts entirely).

 

[rootbeergnome]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone! I have played many white wolf games, but have never had the chance to read Mage, Ill have to take a look at the system. I have read the Dragonlance 5th age system and I really enjoyed the way magic is created in it, but the rules still seem to me to cause even first level casters to be mighty beyond all other first level characters. I bought a used copy of Ars Magica just to read the magic system in it. My hope is to create a magic system that will work well with the D20 system without making everyone want to play a Caster. I hope to have this worked out for a game I plan on running this summer, I also think that melee classes should get bonuses for creativity, but Im not sure what type of mechanic to use for that either. Thanks for all the help, Ill look into all your suggestions. Any other ideas? Also, is anyone currently using a creative casting system in their D20 game? Thanks again for all the replies!
-RB Gnome

 

[RangerWickett]

I suggest Talislanta, which I've heard handles the spell on-the-fly better than Ars Magica. Plus, it's a d20 system, sorta.

Basically, you have 12 Modes of spells:

Alter
Attack
Conjure
Defend
Heal
Illusion
Influence
Move
Reveal
Summon
Transform
Ward

Because of the way the magic of this world works, you can't mix modes, so no spells can both deal damage and heal it. Then again, it wouldn't be too hard to change the rules around to allow such a thing.

There is a fairly large variety of things each order can do. The overall power depends on level, and you can try to cast any level of spell you want, though the levels work a little differently than from D&D. Whenever you cast a spell, roll d20-spell level+caster level, and if you beat a certain DC, the spell works.

An attack spell might deal 1d4 point of damage per level of spell, a defend spell might give a +1 AC bonus per spell level or stop the next 5 points of damage taken per spell level. A move spell could do mage hand as a 1st level spell, or teleport as a 20th level spell, etc.

You choose all the specifics, with just these basic guides. It's a very flexible system.

 

[widderslainte]

I haven't had the opportunity to try in in 3E, but for a number of years I dropped the "memorization" bit in game terms. Spellcasters could still cast the same number of spells each day, but they could decide what to cast on the fly. If you needed Feather Fall, you cast it. That simple.

Some people think this is unbalancing, but I never found problems with it. It gave a little more diversity to the game. Clerics were no longer stocking up on healing spells, and Wizards had soemthing other than Magic Missile or Fireball to cast. If you want to limit it, make the players come up with a short list, based on intelligence and level, but still not modifying the number of spells cast in a day.

 

[kenjib]

What about Chaos Magic from Mongoose? Unless I misunderstand it sounds similar to what you are talking about. Another option is the magic system from Sovereign Stone. The Codex Mysterium has rules for creating spells from different sources like you mention. In the SS rules it is tied to research and you still have spells to learn, but you could probably tweak the system somehow to just cast the spells directly.

It seems like it would be easier for you to start with something that is close to what you want and tweak rather than worrying about trying to make something from scratch.