Identify

[Darklone]

With potions, you use an alchemy check. Take 20 and just spend the requisite supplies form your alchemists lab.

-Fletch!

Taking 20 at an ALCHEMY check? Forgive me to scream, but don't you have exploding laboratories in your adventures?

I would not allow that. No chance.

As for identifying: I like the "let them guess" game. I don't use any generic +1 weapons or items in my games though. Everything has drawbacks, extra edges and stories that influence their powers.

 

[Madfox]

A quote from the SRD on the alchemy check:

Identify substance - DC 25 - Costs 1 gp per attempt (or 20 gp to take 20)

and

Retry: Yes, but in the case of making items, each failure ruins the half the raw materials needed, and the character has to pay half the raw material cost again. For identifying substances or potions, each failure consumes the cost per attempt.

In short, if you do not allow the take 20 with alchemy you are making a house rule

Personally, I use identify as written with one very small difference. When an item has got multiple properties, which happens only very rarely, the caster know there is more magic in the item.

 

[Pielorinho]

Way house-ruled here. Lemme give three different examples:

1) The PCs found a cloak on an enemy's body, scarlet with spidery golden runes embroidered on it. When they put it on, it rustled in a nonexistent wind, and it sounded as if voices were whispering to them. When they detected magic on it, they discovered that it was (duh) magical, and a Spellcraft check of 23 told them that it had a wind spirit bound to it. A bit of experimentation later, and they realized that the cloak would try to intercept itself between the wearer and an attack. At that point, they decided to give it to a low-AC sorcerer, and I told her that it was a cloak of protection +1, granting a +1 deflection bonus to AC.

2) On the same body, the PCs found a necklace with what looked like a dreamcatcher pendant. The center of the dreamcatcher weaving was hollow (think a 2-d donut woven by a spider), with the inner ring surrounded by what looked like ruby beads. It detected as magical, with some sort of scholarly spirit attached to it. The sorcerer decided to wear it. Whenever she cast a spell, the rubies would glow for a few seconds and then dim.

The PCs didn't have access to Identify, but they were traveling to meet some wizards from the same country as the fallen enemy. When they met the wizards a few days later, one of them recognized the type of magic, and suggested that the sorcerer try to draw the magic of a spell back into her after she'd cast it. She did so, and at that point, I told her how it would work: after casting a spell between 0th and 3rd level, she could take a standard action to regain that spell (or spell slot, in her case). She'd have five rounds to do so before the spell or spell slot was lost.

3) Long ago, the PCs found a magical spyglass. They figured out its first power fairly quickly: it is a normal spyglass, except with amazing range. Even subjecting it to an identify spell didn't tell them more properties of it. Several sessions after discovering it, someone was scrying on them, and the spyglass started to twist in their backpack. They learned a secondary power of the glass: its permutations allow a +5 bonus to scry checks to realize you're being watched, and if you beat the other person by +10 in an opposed scry check, you can get a look at them.

Much later, purely through chance, they realized a third property of the item: if you're watching someone with the spyglass, as long as you don't take your eye away from the lens, you can watch them turn corners, enter a forest, climb up on a roof, etc. Line of sight doesn't matter.

I've told them that they may make additional scry checks at later levels to discover additional powers that the spyglass has.

Detect Magic in my game tells what sort of spirit is bound to an item, often giving a good clue about what sort of item it is. (It doesn't, however, tell schools of magic). Identify works almost like normal, except that it tells an item's most prominent function: it'll tell you how to activate the flaming on a sword, rather than telling you the sword is +1. And if someone gets reasonably close to understanding what an item does, I'll go ahead and give them the stats for the item, so that I don't have to keep track of it.

But mostly, I try to make discovering an item's properties an interesting, story-based proposition, rather than something left to a single spell.

Daniel

 

[mkletch]

In short, if you do not allow the take 20 with alchemy you are making a house rule

We only allow someone to take 20 on alchemy checks for identifying potions. As for paying someone to do it, we just figured that a decent alchemist could do it in 5 tries max, and charge 7 if the players do not want to bother to do it themselves.

Granted, this is in a fairly high-magic campaign. In an upcoming low magic campaign, I might force them to do it themselves (i.e. no lazy shortcuts).

-Fletch!

 

[maddman75]

Let me clarify --

My 'Identify tells you what it is' rule is for standard magic items only! If it is a special item, has a signifigant history, or has the special enhancement: Plot Device, then it may take legend lore and research to find out all the properties. I don't do this often. There is plenty of mystery in my game, just from sources other than items.

And with the rules as written, the magic item market assumed by 3e is impossible. Is the shopkeeper going to have to keep an 11th level wizard on hand to make sure he isn't getting rooked? The 'I'll put on the magic ring and dance around to see if it does anything' got old about a decade ago. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

I'm not afraid of recordkeeping, but I don't want to do extra work for something that (IMO) adds nothing to the game.

 

[zyzzyr]

Hello,

I use the following rule (no idea what the 1e/2e rule was):

10 mins/level, level items. i.e. an 8th level cleric casting identify can identify 8 items with one spell, and a total of 80 minutes to identify them all.

It only tells you the weakest property.

I stick with Analyze Dweomer to find out everything about it.

If someone decides to use it, even though they don't know what it does, I'll go a few rounds without them knowing, and then I'll tell them "Add +1 deflec to AC" or similar. If it's some sort of really unique property that might be detrimental, I wouldn't tell them

zyzzyr

 

[coyote6]

Basically, our house rule: casting time is 1 or 2 hours (I forget which right now), works on one object (w/one property per caster level) or 1 object/level, and the pearl is a focus, not a material component.

Oh, and I consider "mysterious" to be a free item property, like glowing for weapons or self-identifying -- with that, identify works as written.

 

[Bonedagger]

Identify:

Using identify to identify an identified (Not identify) identity is not identified as being in need of identify. But otherwise I identify as identify.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Plus, how often do lower level characters find multiple use powers that aren't obvious? For instance, you find a magic sword, which is flaming. You cast ID, and find out it's +2, so you know you have a +2 flaming or flaming burst sowrd.

You're wrong there. Flaming swords aren't sheathed in flames the whole time. You must use the command word first. So you'll have a +2 flaming sword but will only know about the +2. Same goes with defending, and much more stuff

As for identify being too much work, how much work is it to write down:

dagger ??

Identify it, erase the "??" and fill in:

dagger +1, plus ??

Then later, adjust to:

dagger +1, returning

Wow, if that's too much work, maybe you should lie down and take a rest between typing each line of text in your caustic reply.

Unfortunately, you won't know that it has additional powers.



BTW: Identify tells you the single most basic function of the item, so the +5 defending sword will identify as a +5 sword, not a defending sword.

Look at it this way: a DM with notes, etc. is more consistent. Once you learn something, you can be certain that it will remain the same. In a free-for-all, the DM is usually too scatterbrained to even keep notes, even if he wanted to!

I'm sorry to hear that you don't know a single smart DM with a quick wit and imagination. But there are there. They can make it all on the fly, and make it good! Not everyone who doesn't want to make notes is an idiot.

Also, there's a difference between keeping notes and keeping tomes. You already want to keep track of some of the players' vital statistics, write the adventure (or modifiy the module), manage several charakters with special qualities and attacks (and magic items and whatnot), including all the monsters. That's notes enoug! I wouldn't want to keep in mind 10 different bonuses I add to the players' checks and rolls without knowing them.

Also, guesswork punishes idiots: we had one wizard-in-a-well that thought he had a ring of feather fall ("It's probably a feather fall ring!") and he used it in the well. Well, it was a ring of jumping, the magically enhanced jump made him bump his head on the opposite wall, fall down into the water, and drow before the others could descent. And the charakter was 3 or so hours old

 

[mkletch]

You're wrong there. Flaming swords aren't sheathed in flames the whole time. You must use the command word first. So you'll have a +2 flaming sword but will only know about the +2. Same goes with defending, and much more stuff

Unless it was flaming when the opponent used it. Then you need a command word to tun it off (it has no duration).

Unfortunately, you won't know that it has additional powers.

That is as far as we house-ruled it: it let you know that there was more, but not what. This is usually enough to keep people from guessing the rest; I run with a paranoid group.

I'm sorry to hear that you don't know a single smart DM with a quick wit and imagination. But there are there. They can make it all on the fly, and make it good! Not everyone who doesn't want to make notes is an idiot.

In over 21 years of gaming, I have yet to find a 'pull it out of your rear' DM that could even approach one that worked by notes. It only ever has a chance of working if the players are equally scatterbrained. If you have a player that keeps good notes/journal, they will catch you, over and over and over again. After then 10th time (sometimes even earlier), the DM looks like a fool. The players have to always tell him the NPCs names! I've seen it a dozen times, with different levels of gamers, in different parts of the US. The story is the same, every time.

Now, I don't mind playing in a 'make up' adventure or campaign every now and then. They do have a much different flavor. But it slips over time, and meta-DMing is a massive problem (no it is not a feature).

Also, there's a difference between keeping notes and keeping tomes. You already want to keep track of some of the players' vital statistics, write the adventure (or modifiy the module), manage several charakters with special qualities and attacks (and magic items and whatnot), including all the monsters. That's notes enoug! I wouldn't want to keep in mind 10 different bonuses I add to the players' checks and rolls without knowing them.

The list of bonuses to be 'remembered' for all players easily fits on a 1"x1.5" post-it note that covers up a little-used table on the inside of my DM screen. Oh, that's tough.

-Fletch!