D&D 4E If 4e went in this direction...

[Aegeri]

Yeah I know, I'm expressing my amazement they aren't in a product closer to the DS:CC. I actually expected themes in Heroes of Shadow at a minimum, or at least in a product soon after. It's going to take almost a year to implement themes into the wider game and I think that's an extraordinarily strange decision, especially given how popular the concept proved to be. If they cancelled the book, surely they must have these themes or something finished and I would sooner have general themes than a bloody barely updated warlord/fighter.

But that is just me.

 

[ggroy]

Yeah I know, I'm expressing my amazement they aren't in a product closer to the DS:CC. I actually expected themes in Heroes of Shadow at a minimum, or at least in a product soon after. It's going to take almost a year to implement themes into the wider game and I think that's an extraordinarily strange decision, especially given how popular the concept proved to be. If they cancelled the book, surely they must have these themes or something finished and I would sooner have general themes than a bloody barely updated warlord/fighter.

But that is just me.

Allegedly there will be themes in the upcoming Neverwinter Campaign Guide.

Tome Blog Archive Tome DDXP Special: Product Seminar

Themes are discussed at around 00:17:00 in the above linked podcast.

 

[Matt James]

I have not seen any of the Neverwinter product, but I can't help but wonder if the themes will only apply to 4eE classes. Either way, I am a big FR fan (not to mention my good friend Erik Scott DeBie) and I am looking forward to this product.

 

[Aegeri]

I doubt that very much, because in many ways (ironically) many e-classes (martial classes especially, with vampire and those with fixed encounter choices following behind) can't actually get much use out of themes beyond the initial power and utilities (because they can't power swap their power powers, or just gain access to them in the first place).

Making themes for E-Classes only would be a totally dumb decision and no matter how disappointed in Wizards current design decisions would I think that they would do that. In any event, the generic themes will work with previous classes, they were going to be in the class compendium after-all.

 

[Matt James]

Depends on the popularity of 4eE classes I would assume.

 

[SteveC]

Just wanted to say that I really like what you've done here. You open up a tremendous amount of options, without changing the underlying structure of the game. I'd love to see more done with this.

 

[Matt James]

Thanks Steve. That's the intention. I would love to see "old" content remain structurally valid while working to correct issues that may have come up. I'm glad you see my intent.

 

[Erudite Frog]

I have not seen any of the Neverwinter product, but I can't help but wonder if the themes will only apply to 4eE classes. Either way, I am a big FR fan (not to mention my good friend Erik Scott DeBie) and I am looking forward to this product.

THat would suck. I REALLY hope they dont do something like that. you should draft up some ideas if you wont get in trouble with wotc. Im not sure if your allowed to do that considering you write for them.

 

[triqui]

Incredibly good article. And yes, themes can do wonders. Probably some class subtypes (such as Battlerager or Tempest) could had been themes (thus you could have a "battlerager ranger", a "battlerager warlord", a "battlerager paladin" or "battlerager barbarian"). Sub-racials (as Dhampyr or Revenant) will benefit too. And maybe some faiths, gods or even pacts (so you could make a "Fey theme" that could work with any class, not only Warlock, or maybe a religious template. A Fighter "of Kord" will be different than a Fighter "of Ioun" for example)

The "add layer" method could even shake the base foundation of 4e. While it might mean extra work and maybe not worthwile (I'm just brainstorming), you could design the game by layers. So you could have role and powersource layers (ie: you put "defender" layer on top of "martial" layer, and you get a different effect than if you put "defender" layer on top of "divine" layer). Dunno if it would work, but sounds intriguing

 

[Aegeri]

The more I think about what you wrote the more I like it. I really think that themes were "technology" that has come into the game a bit late to truly shine. I think the vampire would have been better off as a theme - instead of a completely on rails single track class. I also think themes as a method of multiclassing could have been a really interesting concept as well. Giving greater flexibility for mixing powers, while allowing individual balance in said powers and adding more viable choices (making MCing feel more relevant than just stealing a PP as is normally done). It just seems like such a good idea.