D&D General If D&D were created today, what would it look like?

[TheSword]

Without D&D, wargames would have continued to fill the niche. There has to be something for geeks to do! Tolkein still existed so it’s reasonable to assume that there would be some fantasy style war games. I think people forget how most of the detail of the Warhammer old world came from the rpg, with the broad strokes coming from the wargames. I think we’d see equivalent TTRPG linked closer to Tolkein, playing in 12thC France, or the age of sail Caribbean or the Napoleonic War. These stories are independent of D&D and would scratch that itch.

People were dressing up in chainmail and waving swords around long before LARP came about... the swords were real too.

In that context a D&D games would be further distanced from Tolkein, but would have a much wider range of fantasy influences to draw from. I’d expect D&D to be more tactical (unless d&d became a rebellion against that) and I suspect it would draw upon popular themes from war gaming and the best of Tolkien’s antecedents.

 

[Tonguez]

As was so much more too. The fantasy movies of the early-mid 80s, Masters of the Universe, and Ultima and the Legend of Zelda just off the top of my head. Without D&D I don't think we would have any of those things. Obviously Tolkien and Robert E Howard were around long before D&D and we may have gotten a movie here and there but I believe D&D paved the way for the audience for the fantasy genre at that time.

No D&D didnt create the Fantasy audience, I saw the movies Conan the Barbarian, Krull and Clash of the Titans before I discovered D&D. Then there was Harryhausens old work in Sinbad the Sailor and Jason and the Argonauts. Really I got into fantasy from watching those Harryhausen movies and reading Greek Myth, Tarzan and John Carter of Mars.

Tolkien, REH, ERB, Narnia, the Wizard of Earthsea, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, the Pern series and the Elric Saga all existed before D&D was created indicating that there was already a huge market for fantasy stories.

I do think a modern DnD would be less influenced by Tolkien, would be darker in tone (like Warhammer) and would lean more on mythic tropes (particularly celtic and norse).

and I wonder if 21st century DnD would have a greater emphasis on social mechanics and collaborative styles of game creation - team problem solving vs linear dungeons, self analysis v XP escalation and shared team outcomes v Gm-directed plots

 

[R_J_K75]

No D&D didnt create the Fantasy audience, I saw the movies Conan the Barbarian, Krull and Clash of the Titans before I discovered D&D and got into DnD from reading Greek Myth, Tarzan and John Carter of Mars. Furthermore Tolkien, REH, ERB, Narnia, the Wizard of Earthsea, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, the Pern series and the Elric Saga all existed before D&D was created indicating that there was already a huge market for fantasy stories.

I never said D&D created the fantasy genre and I did acknowledge the fantasy genre existed before D&D. What I said was that my opinion is that without D&D a lot of the fantasy genre that came along in the 80s probably wouldn't have happened. The timing of that stuff coming out closely on the heels of D&D isn't coincidence.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I never said D&D created the fantasy genre and I did acknowledge the fantasy genre existed before D&D. What I said was that my opinion is that without D&D a lot of the fantasy genre that came along in the 80s probably wouldn't have happened. The timing of that stuff coming out closely on the heels of D&D isn't coincidence.

You might argue that they where tapping into a common zeitgeist and that the creation of D&D was part of that. I.e. if Gygax hadn't created it, someone else would have, at around the same time.

There are a few details that might have been different had someone else invented it, such as Vancian casting. Narnia might have been a bigger influence, so more anthropomorphic animals. Or Oz, or Earthsea.

 

[R_J_K75]

You might argue that they where tapping into a common zeitgeist and that the creation of D&D was part of that. I.e. if Gygax hadn't created it, someone else would have, at around the same time.

I said the exact same thing in my OP quoted below.

I think D&D came along exactly when it should have and if Gygax hadn't created it someone else would have. If it had come 5-10 years sooner or later it probably wouldn't have caught on and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think the point of it is if it was invented today.

Alt reality Gygax plays it with Luke but doesn't release it.

RPGs as such evolve from early text based games.

RPGs still get invented but later say 10 years. They all remain niche.

Luke cobbles togather something from his childhood memories and kick-starts it.

But yeah depends on if and when rpgs get invented. Or if D&D is the first one or not.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The question, as presented, is almost impossible to answer. You have essentially said, "Strip out any relevance Tolkien might have had for the fantasy genre over the past 50 years." Given how foundational he's been, that's...I mean, fantasy gaming wouldn't exist, really. We wouldn't have Final Fantasy, The Elder Scrolls, Warcraft, Everquest...MMOs would have followed the lead of Ultima Online, not EQ! (Ultima was mostly inspired by The Wizard of Oz rather than Tolkien.)

Dragons would almost certainly still be a thing because Dragonriders of Pern isn't tied to D&D or Tolkien, but they'd be nearly unrecognizable and almost certainly all good guys (or participating on both sides), though ironically gold and bronze dragons would probably still be implicitly good. I imagine the Wheel of Time, Harry Potter, and various young-adult fantasy stuff would have been a major influence. Religion would almost certainly be a non-entity, or would be radically curtailed compared to its presence in D&D. It might have a more modern bent, or be specifically geared to work in either medieval or modern contexts, in part due to The Dresden Files.

But...yeah as far as mechanics and content goes beyond such high-level conceptual stuff? I don't really think you CAN say anything about it. You're cutting out so much and forcing forty to fifty years of undefined alternate history. I don't think

 

[delericho]

Let’s say D&D wasn’t invented yet, and let’s assume RPGs didn’t get created yet either for the sake of argument. If the game were to be created today, what would it look like and how would it be different from the white box?

It wouldn't. D&D gained traction by "borrowing" liberally from the big fantasy IPs of the time, and when hit with a C&D was able to republish with the serial numbers filed off (hobbits became halflings, etc). The IP landscape today is rather different, such that the equivalent game would be squashed like a bug under lawsuits, if it were published at all.

 

[jgsugden]

Even without the legal concerns raised above, no company would invest in fantasy if fantasy had not already been made big by D&D. If RPGs started today, it would not be D&D - it would be based on space operas or comic books most likely.

 

[Sacrosanct]

The question, as presented, is almost impossible to answer. You have essentially said, "Strip out any relevance Tolkien might have had for the fantasy genre over the past 50 years."

Nothing of the sort. Tolkien had a resurgence in the 60s, which is notably before D&D came out. And Tolkien has major influence in fantasy with the likes of Sword of Shannara which also was before D&D (Brooks started writing it in 1967). So saying "what if D&D was never created", you don't have to strip out Tolkien's influence at all in fantasy. Tolkien had a lot of relevance to fantasy before D&D, and can be assumed to still have had major influence even if D&D never was invented.

On a related note, we also had the entire sword and sorcery genre before D&D came out, and we know D&D was heavily influenced by that. So IMO, if it game out today, it would be heavily influenced by current pop culture fantasy/sci-fi, so I think it would be much more influenced by dystopian and post-apocalyptic settings rather than medieval Europe.