Aldarc
Legend
If YOU had read the thread, then you would know that I have already addressed the OP and contributed in this thread numerous times.Did you even read the thread?
but don't come in here obviously not having read the OP
If YOU had read the thread, then you would know that I have already addressed the OP and contributed in this thread numerous times.Did you even read the thread?
but don't come in here obviously not having read the OP
Not really, though I don't think reading what I said in that way changes my point.@pemerton's use of the adjective "white" is likely meant to extend collectively to all that follows: i.e., White Wizard, White Witches, White Necromancer.
My view on those tropes must be not aligned with yours, but through the history of the game (especially 3.5 with its unending tidal wave of Prestige Classes) and even today in 5e you can build characters which can fit into those tropes.
<snip>
I dont know, there's not much that throughout 2e/3.5e/5e I cant find a fit for, especially now that they are at the subclass stage of blending the types of Magic (Divine Soul/Celestial Lock).
Given the context of your post as a reply to the OP about the original classes, I was thinking of the core of D&D rather than the periphery created by the vast amount of material created for 3E D&D and its offshoots.My point was only that with the classes we have had for an extremely long time, they can be bent towards almost anything.
Not all of anime.Anime combat/magic is directly and indirectly heavily inspired by D&D - many of the big earlier magic-heavy animes are directly D&D-inspired. Those that aren't are often JRPG-inspired, which was D&D-inspired. You're flatly wrong to say "It developed outside of D&D" as a general claim. There are other inspirations too, but fantasy anime would be completely different in character without D&D, far more focused on actual mythology.
So you're very wrong here, I'm afraid. It's not even hard to demonstrate if you look at the history of anime.
I also don't agree that people would see these different mechanics/ideas as "hard to melt into the same skeleton". On the contrary, I think people would think it was pretty easy, aside from the most outre stuff
Yeah, I think you have to distinguish between magic in anime that clearly owes a debt to JRPGs (which in turn owe a debt to D&D), versus magic in anime that are stylized upgrades of Japanese or other folklore, versus "magic" as it appears in some shonen series where it's really just super-powered martial arts (or just plain super-powers).Not all of anime.
If someone started doing the stuff you see in modern anime in D&D, an old school DM would have a heart attack.
Sure many of them mimic D&D in look. Some even use the mechanics. But it's not the majority. A whole lot of the anime archetypes that don't fit the D&D model that the inspiration has to be minimal.
Maybe. Or it might use something like classes that you can then branch out of as you advance, or a system none of us have seen before.it would likely do a bit of both as it might use keywords or tags or description to say this is for the big guy experience.
Yep early D&D was incomplete in terms of archetypes. Nothing complicated here.I'll see your owl-tilt and raise you an eyebrow....
4 classes come from 5 classic examples? Where'd the fifth one go? Something doesn't compute here...
This is silly, as an assumption. It’s possible, but far from a safe assumption. Super hero movies are just as likely an influence, as are fantasy high budget tv shows, and Star Wars.That's your bias showing.
If D&D were created today, as in February 2021, and it was made for general audiences.... D&D would have a lot of anime/manga influence. There would be systems to mimic the weapon and magic styles found in anime/manga and it likely would not mesh with more classical Western styles.
It would impossible to have fewer classes without watering down what those classes are.
Yep, D&D hasnt ever really tried to do The Chick. Maybe the Bard, but yeah, D&D has always had a plethora of “5th Man” classes, and they’ve been called that by players.You're missing a Man then.
The 5 man band lean only works if the focus was on roles like 4e:
Leader- Cleric
Melee Striker- Rogue/Ranger/Barbarian
Controller- Wizard
Defender- Fighter
Ranged Striker- Warlock/Sorcerer/Ranger
If the focus is one recreating archetypes, then you have way more than 4-5 classes. Because by 2021, there would be way more than 4 basic fantasy archetypes.
Early D&D was just lazy and tried to force every archetype to bea variant of the first 4 it thought up.
I didn't say anime will be the only influence.This is silly, as an assumption. It’s possible, but far from a safe assumption. Super hero movies are just as likely an influence, as are fantasy high budget tv shows, and Star Wars.
The point I was trying to make is that in 2020, the table will be broader in spectrum than in the 70s due to the expansion of media and audiences. Especially if there is no D&D of the past to guide many trends.Yep, D&D hasnt ever really tried to do The Chick. Maybe the Bard, but yeah, D&D has always had a plethora of “5th Man” classes, and they’ve been called that by players.
but that is also irrelevant to my point. AUDnD would be more likely to focus on those broad archetypes and then build out from there, than to try to fit all the archetypes into the core book.
I don’t know why people assume that it would be made for mass appeal, either. It’d likely be very indie, and fairly niche in focus, while trying to be diverse and inclusive.
We might see a Seven Samurai twist on the Band, of course. But there would be a Leader, a Face, a Big Guy, a Smart Guy, and a Lancer (usually a fast heavy hitter that isn’t as tough as the big guy), for sure. By whatever names. Probably simple names like Warrior and Priest and Magician or Sorcerer or one of the other classic “magic guy” names, though Gandalf is a Wizard so that might still be what it’s called.
I didn’t suggest that you did.I didn't say anime will be the only influence.
AUDnD would be indie, more likely than corporate, and so whether it is significantly anime influenced would depend heavily on who makes it, what they’re into, and what kind of thing they’re trying to make.I'm saying that, just like in the 70s, a DM or designer will create a class to match popular characters of the day. And some of them will be anime. I'd be shocked if AUDnD doesn't have a warrior with flash steps, air slashes, and power moves.
Also it would depend on how open-source it becomes. The initial creators may stick with a few races and classes or whatever based on their interests but make it easy for other people to create things--and may even highlight favored creations with seals of approval, kind of like what's done in the DM's Guild. (Kind of, because I don't go there a lot so I don't know how everything is judged.) If AUD&D is open-source and mostly digital, then it would be easy to expand beyond the initial creation. After all, even with PoD services, wikis, pdfs, and e-mags are much easier and cheaper than dead tree books.AUDnD would be indie, more likely than corporate, and so whether it is significantly anime influenced would depend heavily on who makes it, what they’re into, and what kind of thing they’re trying to make.
Yeah the community collaboration element would likely be greater, especially if it still had its DIY mentality.Also it would depend on how open-source it becomes. The initial creators may stick with a few races and classes or whatever based on their interests but make it easy for other people to create things--and may even highlight favored creations with seals of approval, kind of like what's done in the DM's Guild. (Kind of, because I don't go there a lot so I don't know how everything is judged.) If AUD&D is open-source and mostly digital, then it would be easy to expand beyond the initial creation. After all, even with PoD services, wikis, pdfs, and e-mags are much easier and cheaper than dead tree books.
Thieves, Assassins and Rogues have been part of both general and fantasy fiction since forever; I can't imagine a broad-based RPG that doesn't find a way to include them in some form. Yes there'd be some overlap with Swashbuckler (or Pirate), but if the Thief-equivalent was more about stealth and cunning and info/loot acquisition than about combat (leave that to the Swashbuckler) there's loads of room for it.3) Thief/Rogue - Crosses over hard with Swashbucklers in fiction, and virtually all of these types in popular fiction by 2020-ish will be competent, even superior combatants, so there will be no need for them. It's unlikely traps and so on will loom as large either, given a later creation date. We might eventually see a skill-monkey class but it won't be linked to backstabbing/stealth.
4) Bard - RIP, I think that's another really unlikely one. We might eventually see a class with "singing magic", but I think they'd be much more of a conventional class than the weird thing Bards have often been. Even heavily D&D-influenced games often drop Bard or have no idea what to really do with it.