If Harm is broken, what's the best house rule for it?

[Xarlen]

They are balanced becuase without them, a high level spellcaster Could Not compete with, or against any combat tank. He's better off just casting all defensive spells and running, or leaving it up to villainous combat types, because he can't Touch a fighter, otherwise.

Hold spells? Pseudo-Insta, it's removed.
Sleep? See above.
Poly Other? See above.
Stone to Flesh? See abov.
Disintegrate? Insta-kill. See above.
Power words? See above.
Finger Of Death? See above.

His only tactics, since Boom spells won't kill fighters (except after 4 or 5), is Repulsion, Reverse Gravity, Enervasion, Bestow Curse, Transmute Rock to Mud, and that's about it.

Wow. Only 2 of those have the potential to hurt a fighter.

On the other hand, a Fighter could kill a wizard in one round. Two, if the rolls are half as good, 3 if he's just unlucky.

WOW. Balance. Let me tell you.

 

[Hegols]

3. And as for combining it with haste, Clerics can't even cast that spell, so they'd be relying on Wizardly help.

Not saying it is broken or it isn't, I go back and forth on that myself. But this isn't totally true. A Cleric with the Time domain could cast haste. It's a domain spell. I had a Dwarven Cleric of Grumbar with Time and Metal domains. He was fun.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Without the save, Harm is as powerful if not more so than Power Word Kill. At least there is an HP cap on PWK....

If you don't believe the above, let's run a simple comparison. Each spell only allows SR to apply. Harm reduces the victim to 1d4 hp, while PWK kills the victim if their current hp is 150 or less. At least PWK has the hp cap. With harm, all it takes is a readied action or a quickened inflict X to put someone out of commission (villain or PC).

Most PCs aren't going to have SR until high levels (guessing 14+). In addition, it only takes one penetration to put the great dragon down in a single round. It's not like something like a dragon would roll a "1" in this case, the cleric just penetrated his SR.

Later!

 

[Furn_Darkside]

He's better off just casting all defensive spells and running, or leaving it up to villainous combat types, because he can't Touch a fighter, otherwise.

.....

WOW. Balance. Let me tell you.

Since you seem to be concentrating on villians: Any high level wizard who would require a insta-death spell to eliminate a fighter deserves the death they get.

There is a reason they have that high int and high level.

If you think the insta-spells balance out the combat types, then you are underestimating the entire bag of tricks at their disposal.

FD

 

[Tom Cashel]

I apologize for the troll-remark.
FD

No sweat.

 

[Xarlen]

I'm talking about Pure Combat. Sure, they have a high Int. So they're going to do what?

Devise a poison (Which is a Fort save).
Hire attackers (Combat types to balance against combat types, Ooo).

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Congratulations. You've perfected condescension. Please forgive me for trying to generate a discussion, instead of asking a simple question with a yes/no answer, oh one and only Furn Darkside!

Furn mastered condescension years ago, get it straight.

 

[ForceUser]

The DMs I play under have all House-ruled harm to allow a saving throw, citing what many here have cited: that the cure line allows it, so why shouldn't harm? Well, you can't spontaneously cast a heal spell, can you? You have to mem it. This suggests to me that heal/harm are not in the cure line and don't follow the same rules.

IMC, harm stays as written until I am convinced, through play, that it is broken. I think that people who have house-ruled it without experiencing it firsthand are being a bunch of Chicken Littles.

 

[Xarlen]

If you can't Spon-cast it, then what do you Spon-cast for a 6th level spell?

 

[Furn_Darkside]

I'm talking about Pure Combat. Sure, they have a high Int. So they're going to do what?

Do you believe all classes should be .. err.. "balanced" against each other for pure combat? At all levels?

FD