If the Soul is removed...what happens next?

[Truth Seeker]

A slight problem here, in a current game, a player's character, a berserker had his soul ripped from him. Still alive, and still himself, conscious wise, still knowing who he is.

Two questions.

1.Can a person function normally without it.
2.Can the berserker rage be tapped, if the essence(the soul) is gone?

On both points, I am saying no in either case.
Reason: 1-The soul is the spark for the entire body, giving the drive for self indentity, and recognition.
2-Without the soul/spirit/essence/chi/kai;, the ability to rage is cut off, the 'mystic' fuel is no longer there.

But then again, everyone has a difference of opinion on this matter, but state your view, please.

And also, the DM of the game, did say, if the character did die...he cannot be brought back to life...in lieu, there is no soul to called back.

Partial question...right now, what does that make the character currently?

Edit:Okay, for game mechanics purposes, how it would be dealt in the game?

 

[EricNoah]

I seem to recall that some cultures picture a person as having TWO souls - one is more animalistic, merely for animating the body and dealing with the body's baser instincts, while the other is more like the person's conscience, sense of right/wrong, seat of high aspirations, etc.

It's kind of like when I'm at war with myself over whether I will eat that donut or not -- it's not my body vs my mind, it's my anima vs. my (whatever the more noble spirit is called).

 

[tarchon]

Usually, some wandering spirit comes by and holes up in the body.

 

[Sejs]

1.Can a person function normally without it.
2.Can the berserker rage be tapped, if the essence(the soul) is gone?

Well, there are no actual rules regarding this kind of situation, so we're on our own as far as interpretation goes. That being said, here's this cube's two bits.


1: Yes and no. There would be a distinct feeling of incompleteness - a gnawing hole at the center of your being that you can't do anything about. Just like your stomach grows hungry for food when denied too long, your whole being aches to fill the emptyness that was once occupied by your soul. This would understandably have some impact on the person in question, though they not necessarily need be translated into game mechanics. Things I would do to the soulless character - he can't sleep well. What little sleep he does get is fleeting and utterly dreamless. (Possible mechanic: maybe a will save to benefit from a night's rest?). He would have a hard time relating to other people - he feels alienated from everyone and everything; animals treat him like they would an abberation or undead, with fear or hostility. People just sense something inherrantly wrong about him (Possible mechanic: a penality to any charisma related checks?). And this ties in a bit with #2, he has no moral compass - any intrinsic sense of right and wrong is frustratingly absent, and he keeps inadvertantly slipping to more animalistic reactions to things. Fight or flight. Establish dominance and pecking order. Territory. The little voice of his "higher self" has fallen silent, and now the only thing offering advise is his darker, more bestial self.

2: Yes, I would say that Rage could indeed be tapped. Actually, more than that I would say that Rage would be easier to tap than it would normally be. And much, much harder to stop. In my interpretation, with the soul gone, his darker, base self is the only thing waiting in the wings, and when he rages... lets that base self rise to the surface and take control, now there's no voice of reason to tell it when to stop. Granted, the body can only be pushed so far before it can no longer keep pace with the demands put on it, but until that limit is reached, I'd say there is no stopping his Rage from running its course. And when he's raging, he'd be alot more bloodthirsty and savage. No mercy, no quarter, no compromise.



As for the partial question - he's still alive, still humanoid. He's not undead or anything like. Infact, he couldn't become undead - no soul to bind, after all. He may even, at DMs discretion, represent something of a blind spot TO most undead, particularly the lower intelligence ones. He has no soul, he's not living, not dead, not undead... dumber undead may not know what he is and just think of him like an object and ignore him unless he took action against them. Or, like animals, becomed spooked by what they don't understand and seek to avoid him at all costs, attacking if pressed or if they feel threatened.

 

[Roman]

I played a soulless (no pun intended!) character once and it was pretty rewarding. It all depends on the interpretation. The DM gave me a lot of leevay on how to interpret it and it sure was fun to think about. Basically, he lost his soul when it was mistakenly harvested by demons on a battlefield (he was hovering on death's door and the demons took him for dead...). Nonetheless, he survived, and having been a powerful spellcaster of the arcane he undestood what had happened and tried to return to his homeland (ruled by his dictatorial father) to seek help. I decided that what sustained him alive was 'echoes of his soul'. The 'echoes', however, were getting weaker and he was clearly dieing. Having lost his spellcasting ability and perceived as an abomination he was exciled from his homeland. Time was running short - he was now very weak and very depressed (I decided that as the echoes of his soul fade so his mood gets ever more gloomy and his complexion ever paler). Eventually, he discovered a monastery and seized on the opportunity to make his body into a better containment vessel for the last echoes of his soul. There he was trained as a monk (back to level 1) and his perfected body could contain the echoes longer. Thus his life was prolonged (he was still dieing, but slower).... and so on and so on.

One interesting RP effect that I decided upon and my DM approved was that whenever the character touched somebody, he partially drained them of their life since his body was an essentially empty vessel, so small parts of souls he touched automatically flowed inside. This would always return some colour to his cheeks, and cheer him up a little, but the effect on the person he was touching was exactly the opposite - he/she became paler, more gloomy and felt her life energy leaving her and flowing to him. There was no mechanical effect to this - it was purely an RP effect.

The character lost all spellcasting abilities, which in this game were tied to the soul.

 

[Tonguez]

In my worldview a person is made up of Body, Soul, Spirit. The Soul is the anima as described by EricNoah (may his named be praised) Himself, it is the battery that makes us 'Who we really are'. Spirit is the higher self that connects to the Divine

Anyway:
Body + Soul + Spirit = Living being
Body + Spirit = Ghoul (not Undead imc)
Body + Soul = Undead
Soul + Spirit = Ghost (incorporeal undead)

So IMC at least the character becomes a ghoul (which are not undead just soulless (and depraved) I'd have the character start a slow decline towards true ghoulish depravity as his hunger grows. The Hunger goes deep for without a soul he must find someway to fill the void within. He has lost his rage but perhaps he will find some other means of power - the flesh of the living to fuel his frenzy!

So only by consuming the flesh of the living can he maintain his identity, yet with each act of depravity he begins to lose a litlle of who he once was - the spiral continues forever downwards into oblivion....

 

[Truth Seeker]

Okay, that is pretty good...anymore?

 

[Darren]

As far as the rules go, the closest thing for a situation like this is probably the Magic Jar spell. That spell seems to indicate that once the body and soul are separated, only the power of the magic prevents actual death.

In your situation penalties to Int, Wis, and Cha wouldn't seem unreasonable after having ones soul ripped away if they are left alive somehow. I really don't see how he could still be himself after that. As far as rage goes, perhaps it would be better to ask whether or not he could still feel emotion without a soul. If yes, then he can still rage. I'm rather doubtful about this myself, though to me it's really more of a philosophical question about the campaign cosmology than rules.

 

[DragonLancer]

The Bastion of Broken Souls module (WotC) has a similar type thing in its background and I made an entire campaign out of it.

SPOILER ALERT
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In that module you have a big bad devouring souls before they are born. So some kids are being born without souls. I played such children as listless, longing and lifeless. They were still able to learn and grow, but they didn;t asct like everyone else - no energy you might say. Played right it was quite freaky, or so a couple of my players told me.

 

[Turanil]

Anyway:
Body + Soul + Spirit = Living being
Body + Spirit = Ghoul (not Undead imc)
Body + Soul = Undead
Soul + Spirit = Ghost (incorporeal undead)

This is pretty good.

Nonetheless, we could make a thread in the houserule forum, to determine what the soul is (in the game), and what game mechanics effects it has. Just hope it isn't a religious subject though...

Really, before determining what happens when the soul is stolen, we should determine what it is. Then, it would be a useful thing because many fantasy/horror tales are about sorcerers who either sell their soul or hide it in some container.