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D&D (2024) If there are no half-elves or half-orcs will there be Tieflings (half fiends)?

Clint_L

Legend
If they truly want to expand mixed ancestry representation...
Okay, this is not about "representation." There is no ethical mandate here; all but one of these is a fictional species. This is about you wanting the rules drastically changed and expanded to suit your personal preferences. Which is way outside the oft-stated design goals for OneD&D. It ain't happening. You'll have to home-brew it or use the 2014 rules.
 

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And if you're not playing something built around a partially human lineage, you have to give up your first level feat which is thematically supposed to come from your background. So again, you have to decide whether your character being part-elf is more important to their character concept than the fact that they are aiming to be a Mage of High Sorcery.

It's turning "Mixed Ancestry" into a character Background option, instead of a Species option.
You did not answer to what I said at all...

even though you are correct, the feat system still works better than anything proposed here. You can use the 2024 Unearthed Arcana version. Chose traits of one race and look of both.

The feat version is only for backwards compatibility.
Half-elf, half-orc as feats to add to the human species. And on top, you could use them for every other mix too.

Make a chose your own traits option for those who want more. But this should always be an option, the DM can say no to. Otherwise we will only see half races amd humans, because every pick your own traits option will be better than the standard packet.
 

Hussar

Legend
The entire discussion surrounding this (in general, not specifically with you) has consistently sounded to me less like a legitimate push to allow for more diverse mixed ancestry representation and more like a way to quietly sweep them under the rug by making the option available, but completely irrelevant and largely invisible.
But, that's the thing. The two examples of mixed ancestry races that we have in the game already are largely superfluous. There's so little difference between the 2014 and the 2024 races that who really cares?

We talked about Dwarf/Dragonborn before. You describe it however you like. That we all agree on. Now, we're just talking about racial abilties. So, I describe a dwarf that is resistant to fire (random example) and has a fire breath weapon. How is that not a "Dwarfborn"? Or, I describe a short, stocky, scaley, horned character that is resistant to poison, can see in the dark and has extra HP. It's not a dragonborn. It's a "Dwarfborn".

The a la carte options simply won't be different enough from the parent races to actually matter, no matter what, because the racial abilties largely don't actually matter that much. Their impact is largely invisible.

What's your background?

I'm a scholar.
I'm a blacksmith.
I'm a noble.
I'm a half-elf.
I'd consider "mixed heritage" to be a very viable background. THAT'S where you plonk down some of the choices that aren't specifically tied to biology. You want your DwarfBorn to have a breathweapon and mason's tools? Poof, done.

So much of the stuff that's doubled up between races and background can be simply covered by background. Proficiencies, languages, skills, weapon proficiencies (which are typically doubled up by class anyway - who cares that you get axe proficiency from being a dwarf if your character already has Martial weapon proficiency?

It's not like species exists in a vacuum. The mixture between species, class and background lets you create a mixed heritage character that's covering all (or at least most) of the bases.
 

Remathilis

Legend
I'd consider "mixed heritage" to be a very viable background. THAT'S where you plonk down some of the choices that aren't specifically tied to biology. You want your DwarfBorn to have a breathweapon and mason's tools? Poof, done.

So much of the stuff that's doubled up between races and background can be simply covered by background. Proficiencies, languages, skills, weapon proficiencies (which are typically doubled up by class anyway - who cares that you get axe proficiency from being a dwarf if your character already has Martial weapon proficiency?

It's not like species exists in a vacuum. The mixture between species, class and background lets you create a mixed heritage character that's covering all (or at least most) of the bases.

Ah yes. All mixed race people have the same origin and background determined by their parentage. They cannot be scholars or nobles, only what their race makes them...

No. Feats should be for feats, species for species traits.
 

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
What's your background?

I'm a scholar.
I'm a blacksmith.
I'm a noble.
I'm a half-elf.
so, being of a mixed bloodline means you can't of had a profession or history outside of being sterotypically the other half of my bloodline? sorry my dwarf-dragonborn doesn't have the skills or experience of being a guard, an acolyte or an outlander, i was too busy learning how to have the traits of my dragonborn half i should've had since birth.
 

Remathilis

Legend
so, being of a mixed bloodline means you can't of had a profession or history outside of being sterotypically the other half of my bloodline? sorry my dwarf-dragonborn doesn't have the skills or experience of being a guard, an acolyte or an outlander, i was too busy learning how to have the traits of my dragonborn half i should've had since birth.
That was my point.

There are a lot of people who think that the level 1 feat is just another design choice point and ignore it's supposed to be part of the PCs background. Thus, making a half-something a level one feat is akin to making it their background.
 

Horwath

Legend
so, being of a mixed bloodline means you can't of had a profession or history outside of being sterotypically the other half of my bloodline? sorry my dwarf-dragonborn doesn't have the skills or experience of being a guard, an acolyte or an outlander, i was too busy learning how to have the traits of my dragonborn half i should've had since birth.
that is why 1st level feats need to be more on a "genetic" side of things. Or some blessing.

Lucky; you are just born with (dumb) luck. Or blessed from birth.
Though: more HP, you are just tougher then normal of your kind
Skilled: you are quick witted and were able to learn more stuff growing up
Magic initiate: as a sorcerer, you are born with magic.
Fast: +10ft move speed, Dash as bonus action. You are just naturally faster.
Mixed heritage: you have traits of of two lineages.
 

Okay, this is not about "representation." There is no ethical mandate here; all but one of these is a fictional species.
People use aspects of their characters to express aspects of themselves, and unless you and your DM are going into substantial depth on the cultural and ethnic distinctions within a given character species, the choice to play a character descended from two (or more) different player species is the easiest and most straightforward way to represent mixed ancestry within the game system.

And under the proposed system, anyone of mixed ancestry IRL that wants to play a mixed ancestry character in-game is being told "Pick which side of your lineage matters." I don't think I need to explain why that comes off as tone-deaf at best.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Never minding that we will still have half orcs and half elves in the Revision. You simply choose the abilities based on one or the other parent. Which means that half-elves will not change much at all - I think they gain a couple of skills and that's about it. Half-orcs might not make it - but, then again, we're supposed to get full orcs, so, it's not like we're losing anything.
Not all of us want to play a monstrous(a race typically used as a monster) race. Half-orcs were a way to play orcs without playing orcs.
I guess we might ask about Genasi as well.
The plane touched. Genasi, tieflings, aasimar, etc. are not half-races. They simply have some of that blood flowing through their veins.
 


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