D&D (2024) If there are no half-elves or half-orcs will there be Tieflings (half fiends)?

[Maxperson]

I'm a bitch.
I'm a lover.
I'm a child.
I'm a mother....

Hah! Great minds.

 

[Corinnguard]

The plane touched. Genasi, tieflings, aasimar, etc. are not half-races. They simply have some of that blood flowing through their veins.

I brought up the Half-Planar, Half-Prime because of the way Monsters of the Multiverse described some of the Genasi as having some elemental features about them, like them having hair made of clouds, flames, rock (or spun metal) or water. So while they are not half-races biologically, they are in a planar sense, the children of two planes. Maybe even two types.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Yeah one thing I like about pathfinder is that planetouched are options which any species can take. It's always been weird to me how only humans can be planetouched in DnD.

Could even apply it to other things, like a constructed option representing that warforged could be built into the shape of any species. Or a draconic option being something like half dragons, which can also be applied to all species.

(of course you'd need to ensure it's balanced)

 

[Corinnguard]

Yeah one thing I like about pathfinder is that planetouched are options which any species can take. It's always been weird to me how only humans can be planetouched in DnD.

Could even apply it to other things, like a constructed option representing that warforged could be built into the shape of any species. Or a draconic option being something like half dragons, which can also be applied to all species.

(of course you'd need to ensure it's balanced)

Dragonforged by Shilonious 3e had plenty of planetouched individuals who arose from non-human ancestors. Planetouched

 

[Clint_L]

People use aspects of their characters to express aspects of themselves, and unless you and your DM are going into substantial depth on the cultural and ethnic distinctions within a given character species, the choice to play a character descended from two (or more) different player species is the easiest and most straightforward way to represent mixed ancestry within the game system.

And under the proposed system, anyone of mixed ancestry IRL that wants to play a mixed ancestry character in-game is being told "Pick which side of your lineage matters." I don't think I need to explain why that comes off as tone-deaf at best.

Oh, but reducing an entire species and/or culture to a few fixed traits isn't problematic? Come on. None of this is about championing IRL diversity. The good thing about the new system is that it is simple, balanced, and opens up player choice.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

For planetouched characters I've always run under the assumption that they use the planetouched stats, but can be of any "mortal" background. I've felt that the planar nature of their blood overrides being Human/Elf/Dwarf/Gnome/Orc/Goblin/whatever. The updated stats of many of the Planetouched now allow for the selection of size medium or small so certainly being part Halfing/Gnome/Goblin can be reflected in base planetouched stats. The affect of the mortal part of their background is mostly cosmetic.

Your small-sized Tiefling might be part Halfling, or maybe they're part Imp, or maybe they're both, the details are up to the player to fill out.

I've personally dislike there being separate lineages for certain types of Elven, Orcish or Halfling planetouched that they had back in 3e (Fey'ri, Tannaruk, Celadrin).

As for other non planetouched mixes, I think the main issue with the old approach was "Why is Elf+Human and Orc+Human so special, when others are not?"

Though they haven't really demonstrated from the playtest how to make a Elf+Gnome, Halfling+Dwarf (yes I know they've been called Stout Halflings in the past) or Human+Elf+Orc to be something "special" in game mechanics yet.

Can it be reflected in 1st level feats or "hybrid traits"? Maybe.
Though certainly "just pick one species" also works.

 

[Corinnguard]

For planetouched characters I've always run under the assumption that they use the planetouched stats, but can be of any "mortal" background. I've felt that the planar nature of their blood overrides being Human/Elf/Dwarf/Gnome/Orc/Goblin/whatever. The updated stats of many of the Planetouched now allow for the selection of size medium or small so certainly being part Halfing/Gnome/Goblin can be reflected in base planetouched stats. The affect of the mortal part of their background is mostly cosmetic.

Your small-sized Tiefling might be part Halfling, or maybe they're part Imp, or maybe they're both, the details are up to the player to fill out.

I've personally dislike there being separate lineages for certain types of Elven, Orcish or Halfling planetouched that they had back in 3e (Fey'ri, Tannaruk, Celadrin).

As for other non planetouched mixes, I think the main issue with the old approach was "Why is Elf+Human and Orc+Human so special, when others are not?"

Though they haven't really demonstrated from the playtest how to make a Elf+Gnome, Halfling+Dwarf (yes I know they've been called Stout Halflings in the past) or Human+Elf+Orc to be something "special" in game mechanics yet.

Can it be reflected in 1st level feats or "hybrid traits"? Maybe.
Though certainly "just pick one species" also works.

Pathfinder 2nd edition has it where the Planetouched was a versatile heritage. You picked your ancestry (human, dwarf, elf, etc.), but instead of picking an ancestral heritage, you picked a particular versatile heritage instead. So you could be a human aasimar or a dwarven tiefling. Whenever you picked up an ancestral feat, you got to choose between picking an ancestral feat or a versatile heritage feat. And of the latter at 1st level, you could pick up a lineage feat to reveal what kind of celestial or fiend you were descended from. Geniekin lineages otoh were permutations of a particular element (Ex. Rimesoul for Water Geniekin or Stormsoul for Air Geniekin).

Level Up has it where Planetouched is a heritage that exists alongside the other heritages in that RPG. If you want something of mixed heritage, you would then pick up one heritage and another heritage's gift. So again you could be a human aasimar or a dwarven tiefling by selecting the human heritage or the dwarven heritage and then picking up the Planetouched gift. Or you could pick up the Planetouched heritage and either a human gift or a dwarven gift in order to get a planar human or a planar dwarf.

 

[Hussar]

Ah yes. All mixed race people have the same origin and background determined by their parentage. They cannot be scholars or nobles, only what their race makes them...

No. Feats should be for feats, species for species traits.

That's kinda missing the point of what I said though.

Species traits come from the racial write-up. So our Dragon/Dwarf uses Dragonborn traits of breath weapon and energy resistance.

Then, you take a background that gives you Tool Use for, say, Mason Tools. ((Note, our hypothetical Mixed Ancestry background was just that hypothetical)). Then you take a class which grants your weapon proficiencies in Martial Weapons and poof, the only trait you are missing from either Dragonborn or Dwarf is Stonecunning. Which, frankly, a mixed heritage species write-up might not actually have anyway - after all, half-elves don't get elven weapon proficiencies. And, frankly, expertise on a single skill check is hardly the defining trait of a dwarf.

Sure, if you're Dwarfborn PC is a wizard, he won't have proficiency in axe. Then again, he's a wizard. He's never going to use that axe anyway, so, who cares?

The point being, your character's features are not solely determined by species. It doesn't exist in a vacuum. I just created a Dwarfborn character using the existing rules without any difficulty at all. Is it really that hard to do this with nearly any combination of two races?

 

[Scribe]

Its just bizarre that they are overcomplicating things, making it work less for a different group...for really marginal 'gain'.

All for what is probably one of the more boring implementations of <word for your character species here> that exists lol.

 

[Hussar]

Its just bizarre that they are overcomplicating things, making it work less for a different group...for really marginal 'gain'.

All for what is probably one of the more boring implementations of <word for your character species here> that exists lol.

Huh? How is it overcomplicating? Isn't this simplifying? Isn't the fact that they are simplifying the entire issue?

In what way are they overcomplicating anything?