D&D (2024) If there are no half-elves or half-orcs will there be Tieflings (half fiends)?

[Clint_L]

half-orc, half-elf, goliath, etc. should be a 1st level feat choice for humans

Why humans? Someone in my current campaign is playing a character who has one orc and one elf parent.

That's what I really like about the new system - it lets players decide. If you want to be from a mixed tortle and gnome family, go for it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Heh... I've kind of felt that it's not because of removing half-elves and half-orcs as specific species write-ups would be the reason to remove tieflings, aasimar and genasi... but rather the existence of the Sorcerer class that should do it.

Almost every Sorcerer subclass is about having some magical being in your family's ancestry or someone way back when being infused with magic from some source. Which is pretty much how tieflings, aasimar, and genasi come about. So why those three are species and yet divine souls, clockwork souls, storm sorcerers, and those with draconic blood only get to be one specific class is kind of meh to me. The tiefling, aasimar, and genasi "Planetouched" should by rights be Sorcerer subclasses too and not species at all.

Quite frankly, this is one of the main reasons why I don't like the Sorcerer class. It's wishy-washy to me and most of its subclasses should probably have just been species to begin with.* The only subclass I like for it is the Wild Mage, because if the Sorcerer is the only spellcasting class that gets to avoid having a specific flavor or story and can be just the blank-slate "I have magic!" option for players... I think being unable to completely control said magic is the price you should pay to get that openness. Having a generic and flavorless spellcaster class can be fine (and I agree with those others who have said the Sorcerer should probably get the same option to select which spell list they want to use like they gave to the Bard)... but you need a slight bad to go with the good in my opinion. Plus then remove the 'Planetouched' as a species option and just make them Sorcerer subclasses.

*Unpopular opinion that I have no illusions will be completely ignored by any powers that be.

 

[Corinnguard]

Heh... I've kind of felt that it's not because of removing half-elves and half-orcs as specific species write-ups would be the reason to remove tieflings, aasimar and genasi... but rather the existence of the Sorcerer class that should do it.

Almost every Sorcerer subclass is about having some magical being in your family's ancestry or someone way back when being infused with magic from some source. Which is pretty much how tieflings, aasimar, and genasi come about. So why those three are species and yet divine souls, clockwork souls, storm sorcerers, and those with draconic blood only get to be one specific class is kind of meh to me. The tiefling, aasimar, and genasi "Planetouched" should by rights be Sorcerer subclasses too and not species at all.

Quite frankly, this is one of the main reasons why I don't like the Sorcerer class. It's wishy-washy to me and most of its subclasses should probably have just been species to begin with.* The only subclass I like for it is the Wild Mage, because if the Sorcerer is the only spellcasting class that gets to avoid having a specific flavor or story and can be just the blank-slate "I have magic!" option for players... I think being unable to completely control said magic is the price you should pay to get that openness. Having a generic and flavorless spellcaster class can be fine (and I agree with those others who have said the Sorcerer should probably get the same option to select which spell list they want to use like they gave to the Bard)... but you need a slight bad to go with the good in my opinion. Plus then remove the 'Planetouched' as a species option and just make them Sorcerer subclasses.

*Unpopular opinion that I have no illusions will be completely ignored by any powers that be.

A friend of mine brought up this same issue back when I was collecting PF1 books. Though in his case what bothered him about the PF1 Sorcerer class and the Planetouched was that a human sorcerer with the Celestial bloodline became more angelic over time than an Aasimar. He felt that beings such as the Aasimar should have sorcerous powers that made them more angelic, but without taking a sorcerous bloodline or taking up PF1's Eldritch Heritage feat several times for the bloodline powers. Kind of like how 4e tried to make the races more powerful as they reached the next tier (at 10th and 20th level?)

I feel like Level Up's Sorcerer class is somewhat better than it's 5e counterpart in that there is less emphasis on Bloodlines, and more emphasis on "I have magic, but it's barely under my control."

 

[Horwath]

Why humans? Someone in my current campaign is playing a character who has one orc and one elf parent.

That's what I really like about the new system - it lets players decide. If you want to be from a mixed tortle and gnome family, go for it.

Sure.
why not?

Feat:
Elven blooded,
You have some defining features of an elf, how much visually is up to you.

gain 4 traits from the list:
Proficiency in perception
Advantage vs charm and immunity to sleep
Darkvision 60ft
+5ft move speed
one cantrip from arcane or primal list
Elven language, plus 3 tool, weapons and languages appropriate for elves(this is more cultural than biological trait)

 

[Corinnguard]

Why humans? Someone in my current campaign is playing a character who has one orc and one elf parent.

That's what I really like about the new system - it lets players decide. If you want to be from a mixed tortle and gnome family, go for it.

A5e also has a means of creating a character of mixed heritage. With regards to your player who is playing a Half-Elf/Half-Orc, they can either start out with the Elf heritage or Orc heritage, and then pick the other's heritage gift. Then they could pick up either an Elven culture (Eladrin, High Elf, Shadow Elf or Wood Elf) or one of the suggested cultures for Orcs (caravanner, stoic orc, warhordling or wildling) for additional benefits.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...7586d8db0b24208b0f54a6/1635092187700/orla.pdf Orla Easyfoot, a 1st level Orc/Elf Bard

 

[Yaarel]

According to the UA, the Tiefling is a species that is altered by Fiendish magic. Typically, they transmit a Fiendish magical "legacy", not a Fiendish biological one.

So they are full Tiefling, and half nothing.

 

[DEFCON 1]

According to the UA, the Tiefling is a species that is altered by Fiendish magic. Typically, they transmit a Fiendish magical "legacy", not a Fiendish biological one.

So they are full Tiefling, and half nothing.

Well, they are now. But at one point, those original peoples who were altered by fiendish magic were a different species.

But that then begs the question did those initial tieflings only breed with other tieflings to create a "true lineage"? Or were there tieflings that had children with other species and at that point the fiendish magic within the blood/DNA/whatever got passed down to the children?

Humans, dwarves, halflings... they all started as humans, dwarves and halflings (in whatever myth or story brought about their existence) from the beginning and bred amongst themselves long enough to create a full species. Tieflings, aasimar, and genasi had to become themselves from a different stock to begin with.

 

[Corinnguard]

But that then begs the question did those initial tieflings only breed with other tieflings to create a "true lineage"? Or were there tieflings that had children with other species and at that point the fiendish magic within the blood/DNA/whatever got passed down to the children?

I am more inclined to believe Tieflings as a race are the result of the Tieflings breeding amongst themselves. Those Tieflings that had children with other species likely sired descendants who may or may not have become sorcerers with a fiendish bloodline. A Tiefling could also be born to two parents who were unaware that they had a fiendish ancestor.

This would also be true for the Aasimar and the Genasi.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I still think the problem the D&D team has is using the term "Half", despite the defenders not having a problem with it. Referring to a race as a half-breed may not be flying with sensitivity readers, so they are focused on a way to broaden the concept instead of limiting it to only two human-centric depictions (humans breeding with elves and orcs), the origins of which weren't originally depicted as positive experiences (explicit racism that Tanis had to deal with, and the potential non-consensual results of orcish conquest.) They've come a long way in modern rulesets, and with fans flipping the tropes, but I totally understand the designers trying a simple "reskinnable" way to depict a diverse background, making it less about rules and more about preferences of presentation.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Never minding that we will still have half orcs and half elves in the Revision. You simply choose the abilities based on one or the other parent. Which means that half-elves will not change much at all - I think they gain a couple of skills and that's about it. Half-orcs might not make it - but, then again, we're supposed to get full orcs, so, it's not like we're losing anything.

I guess we might ask about Genasi as well.

I still haven't heard how I'm supposed to represent a society of Khoravar in Eberron that feel distinct from their human (and/or elven) neighbors when the only solution being offered is "just play a human and say their ears are slightly pointy".