D&D (2024) If there are no half-elves or half-orcs will there be Tieflings (half fiends)?

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

I like this example better than half-elves, as half-elves were just better versions of elves, while not mixing anything human into their suite of features.

Never pretended the '14 Half-Elf kit was particularly compelling, just that I consider its existence as a necessary component for creating characters that feel like Khoravar to me.

Perhaps it would have looked a bit better if they'd given it an overhaul for '24 rather than chucking it in the bin.

No. Because before, that mix wasn’t possible under the rules. You could homebrew that race but it did not exist in the game.

Now it does.

That’s a win right there.

It is, except I can no more have a Dwarf-Dragonborn that takes something mechanical from each of its parent species than I can a Khoravar that takes something from both human and elf. You may not consider that an issue, but I do.

All I need is a standardized system to mix and match species traits and I can take it from there, but saying "just homebrew one" still leaves the core game system lacking something that I see as a vital component if it truly wants mixed ancestry representation.

 

[bedir than]

How is Tales of the Valiant handling characters with mixed ancestry/heritage? curious

You can see it in their Smallfolk playtest
Pick a Lineage and then a Heritage. While most of the Heritages are inspired by trope-y subraces, you could be a goliath that grew up in the Warrens.

 

[Hussar]

Never pretended the '14 Half-Elf kit was particularly compelling, just that I consider its existence as a necessary component for creating characters that feel like Khoravar to me.

Perhaps it would have looked a bit better if they'd given it an overhaul for '24 rather than chucking it in the bin.


It is, except I can no more have a Dwarf-Dragonborn that takes something mechanical from each of its parent species than I can a Khoravar that takes something from both human and elf. You may not consider that an issue, but I do.

All I need is a standardized system to mix and match species traits and I can take it from there, but saying "just homebrew one" still leaves the core game system lacking something that I see as a vital component if it truly wants mixed ancestry representation.

Ok.

Let’s stick with dwarf/Dragonborn. Cool concept. I like it. Perhaps a dwarves community was just a bit too close to that dragon’s lair. Neat.

Now, what do you need here to make this feel like a unique character? Probably look mostly like a dwarf. Maybe with horns and some scales. None of that is mechanical so go nuts.

Give that character a breath weapon and damage resistance and you’re good to go.

I’m really struggling to see the problem here. If you go the other way? You lose the breath weapon, gain poison resistance and some other bits and bobs.

Sounds like a half dwarf half Dragonborn to me.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Ok.

Let’s stick with dwarf/Dragonborn. Cool concept. I like it. Perhaps a dwarves community was just a bit too close to that dragon’s lair. Neat.

Now, what do you need here to make this feel like a unique character? Probably look mostly like a dwarf. Maybe with horns and some scales. None of that is mechanical so go nuts.

Give that character a breath weapon and damage resistance and you’re good to go.

I’m really struggling to see the problem here. If you go the other way? You lose the breath weapon, gain poison resistance and some other bits and bobs.

Sounds like a half dwarf half Dragonborn to me.

Yes, I know that I can choose to go with either set of mechanics, paint on some cosmetics, and still call it a Dwarf-Dragonborn or whatever name that particular combination ends up settling on. That's not the point. The point is that under the current ruleset, mixed ancestry is ONLY cosmetic, and having a mechanical expression of some kind is important to me.

It doesn't need it to be much. It doesn't even need to be the same thing for every character or every unique societal group comprised of that particular combination of species, and I am perfectly fine with there being a spectrum ranging from fully species X mechanically to fully species Y to work with. But I need for there to be SOMETHING in the middle of that spectrum, not just a binary X/Y choice between the extremes, and the current ruleset doesn't allow for that.

 

[Hussar]

having a mechanical expression of some kind is important to me.

.

That’s what I don’t get. Why? Why is it important? The only mechanical difference between a half elf and an elf is a couple of proficiencies. That’s it.

As it stands, you flat out cannot play your half dwarf.

 

[Horwath]

That’s what I don’t get. Why? Why is it important?

maybe people want for their characters to interact with the game a little differently depending on race/species:

This knows little bit more.
this one is a little bit faster
this one can teleport short distance every so.
this one is little tougher(+1 HP per level)

 

[Hussar]

maybe people want for their characters to interact with the game a little differently depending on race/species:

This knows little bit more.
this one is a little bit faster
this one can teleport short distance every so.
this one is little tougher(+1 HP per level)

I get that. Fair enough. I’m not arguing that races should have no distinct mechanics.

But how are two skill proficiencies the sticking point here? In what way does proficiency in sleight of hands define you being a half elf?

 

[Horwath]

In what way does proficiency in sleight of hands define you being a half elf?

Sleight of hand? really nothing.

Also, I would put Sleight of hand as pure cultural benefit, not biological.

But if we want to have skill to represent some minor differences then:

Human: +2 skill proficiency of choice. Versatile by nature.
Elf: proficiency and expertise in Perception. Superb natural senses.
Half-elf: proficiency in Perception and +1 skill proficiency of choice. Middle ground between two.

 

[Hussar]

But that’s not in the phb now.

I’m talking about the game as it is.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Never minding that we will still have half orcs and half elves in the Revision.

You say that but it sounds like they're actively retconning out those species from upcoming books. For example Daran Edermath is no longer a half-elf in the Phandelver campaign.

So yeah, a player can have a super special OC 'half elf' which is just a reskinned human, but if they've been removed from the rest of the lore it's going to feel pretty jarring.