if you fail a will save, do you know a spell has been cast on you?

[evilbob]

If a creature is subject to a non-obvious spell that requires a will save (such as scrying) and that creature fails its will save, does it realize it is being effected?

Also, it seems clear that a creature would know it passed a will save if it succeeded, but would it know what spell tried to affect it? Would a caster be allowed a Spellcraft check to id the failed spell via its effect, since it never happened and there was never anything to be viewed?

Even more questions, specific to scrying: would it be possible for the creature to notice a scrying sensor? (It is never mentioned as being invisible.) If the creature was a caster, should they not be allowed a Spellcraft check to identify the "ongoing effect?"

 

[kreynolds]

If a creature is subject to a non-obvious spell that requires a will save (such as scrying) and that creature fails its will save, does it realize it is being effected?

Also, it seems clear that a creature would know it passed a will save if it succeeded, but would it know what spell tried to affect it?

I typically become confused on this matter precisely 10 seconds after it has been clarified to me. I thought they were aware, but am probably wrong. I don't think the creature knows what spell tried to affect it, only that something did.

Even more questions, specific to scrying: would it be possible for the creature to notice a scrying sensor?

Yes, from the SRD: Any creature with an Intelligence score of 12 or higher can notice the sensor by making a DC 20 Intelligence check.

(It is never mentioned as being invisible.)

Same paragraph: A scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor...

 

[stonegod]

Folks that make a save against a targeted effect know something is up.

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

W/ Spellcraft, you can try to ID the spell.

DC 25 + Spell level. After rolling a saving throw against a spell targeted on you, determine what that spell was. No action required. No retry.

 

[evilbob]

Wow - so not in the spell description, but under the "scrying" portion of the "divination" school description is where this is found... Jees...

Ok, so scrying is covered, but what about if someone failed a will save against the scrying spell? Here is the only thing that comes close to explaining some of this:

Succeeding on a Saving Throw

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

So I'm guessing even if you make a saving throw, you don't know and can't figure out what happened without seeing the caster. Edit: Ok, so you -can- use a Spellcraft check. Great.

So just down to the original question: if you fail, do you know you're being affected?

 

[evilbob]

I just wanted to point out that this is the 3rd time in about an hour that my post came in seconds after another post and I started before the other post was posted. Must... type... faster...

 

[kreynolds]

Hehe.

 

[TYPO5478]

As stonegod points out, you need a successful save to recognize you've been targeted. I'd say failure means that you don't know you were targeted. Otherwise you'd get Belkar-like situations: "Hang on a second, guys... I think I just failed a Will save."

Also, there's a difference between a successful save and a spell that never happened. I think if you make the save, you have the option to make an immediate Spellcraft check to determine what it was you just saved against.

 

[evilbob]

TYPO: This certainly seems to be the way this is shaping up. I guess I'm just wondering if there's anything written specifically that says you don't know if you fail a save against non-obvious effects.

 

[kreynolds]

I think if you make the save, you have the option to make an immediate Spellcraft check to determine what it was you just saved against.

Yep. From the SRD, Spellcraft skill: 25 + spell level --- After rolling a saving throw against a spell targeted on you, determine what that spell was. No action required. No retry.

 

[kreynolds]

I guess I'm just wondering if there's anything written specifically that says you don't know if you fail a save against non-obvious effects.

I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to make a different if the effect is obvious or not.