If you replace every plank and nail in a ship...

[Legildur]

A party of PCs is going through the World's Largest Dungeon. If each original member of the party dies and is replaced by a new character so that the party now contains none of its original members or equipment, is it still the same party?

<grin> I know where you are coming from. Out of seven starting characters, only one (LG Cleric) is still alive and, until last session, was CE in alignment (players in that module will know what I mean).

I guess the problem resolves itself once one of the clerics (we have 2 and a half) reaches 9th level and gets access to Raise Dead (assuming there is the stupid 5000gp worth of ruby lying around).

 

[Mark CMG]

It begs the question of if the characters are the plank and nails or the players. Do the players make up the party or the characters? Does it make a difference?

Ever run a one-shot with the same set of pre-gens? I have and it certainly seemed like a different party.) In my current group (described earlier in thread) most of the players and most of the characters have changed, but gradually, and it seems like a different group.

However, I have run different campaign with the same group of players and two completely different sets of PCs (with almost all players playing different PCS than they did early), yet that came across very much as the same party, though I would hesitate to say they were.

From these experiences, I'd have to say that it is more the players that are the planks and nails and that they can be, but aren't necessarily (i.e. aren't always capable of being), the same party.

 

[Sejs]

If they all die at once, no. Different party.

If they die piecemeal and are replaced over time, the new members incorporating with the old ones, then yes - same party.

 

[Driddle]

A party of PCs is going through the World's Largest Dungeon. If each original member of the party dies and is replaced by a new character so that the party now contains none of its original members or equipment, is it still the same party?

Why do you ask?

 

[jeffh]

It begs the question of if the characters are the plank and nails or the players.

GAH! No, it does not beg the question. Try not to misuse philosophy terms in a thread that's essentially about philosophy.

As for the original question, it's pretty much a matter of how you choose to define things. It's what Derek Parfit calls an "empty question" - you can know all the relevant facts and still not agree on the answer - which means that nothing of any substance can possibly hinge on the answer.

 

[Melan]

Parties are "made" not only by the characters, but the players as well. The same PCs played by different players would likely create a radically different "story" than the original playing group. There should be less divergence with the same players but a revolving cast of characters.

 

[Numion]

I like to add, "And if you take those planks and nails from the original ship and reassemble them elsewhere so it is exactly like the first ship, which one is the original ship? Both? Neither?"

Just something to think about.

Is this like the teleporter from Star Trek?

 

[Mark CMG]

GAH! No, it does not beg the question. Try not to misuse philosophy terms in a thread that's essentially about philosophy.

Strange that you would not accept the modern usage of the phrase since you are posting in a thread that uses modern language.

 

[sckeener]

It can well be. Anyone familiar with the Black Company novels? The mercenary company the books center around, the Black Company, is generations old. It's forgotten much of its past, because the Annals detailing where it came from ("We're the Black Company, last of the Free Companies of Khatovar. What the hell's Khatovar?") have been lost.

Continuity can still exist even though the old members are all dead and rotting bones.

That was exactly what I was thinking about when I read this thread. The only way to kill off the old party is to do TPK.

Even then if say the Black Company was totally wiped out but the annals survived. Afterwards if another company called itself the Black Company and read/used the same annals would it be the Black Company?

 

[Merkuri]

Why do you ask?

Because I can.