D&D 5E (2014) If you use Group Initiative (like my group does), why do you use it?

[Shadai]

I actually use the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire system for initiative.

For those of you unfamiliar with Fantasy Fights most excellent system for RP, they use "team" concept yet still retain individual slots.

Basically, roll initiative for every PC and group of baddies. The PC's call out their number and those become PC slots, the baddies roll NPC slots. Then arrange in obvious order. You'll get something that looks like this:

PC Slot
PC Slot
NPC Slot
PC Slot
NPC Slot
NPC Slot
PC Slot

Here's how it works. On a valid PC slot during a round, the players decide which PC gets to go at that point, with each player going once per round. Meaning, in our example order above, you have a Pally, a Wizard, a Rogue, and a spoony bard in a barfight with big baddy, minor baddy, and group of henchmen baddies. First up is a PC slot the rogue player rolled, but ops not to take it, instead letting spoony bard go (who rolled the last slot) because he maybe just might have hit on big baddy's wench. Spoony bard takes his turn to run away from Big Baddy, kicking off the fight. Pally who rolled the 3rd slot ops to go in the next slot because someone has to stand up for spoony bard and punches big baddy. Then as the DM, I decide that minor baddy, who is closer to spoony bard then big baddy decides to grapple spoony bard to give him the pummeling his so rightfully deserves. Next slot is a PC slot, so the rogue goes and tries to punch minor baddy, and quickly understands why he doesn't use non-finesse fists of fury. Now as DM I have two NPC slots, and Big Baddy and group of henchmen to go next so I get to decide who goes when. I elect for Big Baddy to ignore stupid pally and punch held spoony bard right in the stomach for great justice. Then I have henchmen jump wizard to stop him from maybe casting some sort of spell. Finally, the wizard gets the last slot and disengages from the mosh pit he suddenly found himself in. Then next round happens, where I use the same slots, but this time maybe the wizard decides he wants to go first, then the rogue.

Its actually really fun, and helps a lot with story.... I always hated it when we're having epic conversation and the barb is like "ENOUGH TALK" and charges in. Then I ask for initiative and he rolls.. a 1. So the guy who rp starts the fight gets to go... last. Seems like everyone else was ready for the fight but the guy who started it. This way I can inform the players that the Barb gets the first PC slot, whatever that happens to be so the rp moves smoothly into combat. The Players really dig it, because instead of them waiting an entire round to roll a dice and miss, they are more opt to stay there and be involved, because the action might dictate they need to go sooner than expected.

 

[Gnashtooth]

I actually use the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire system for initiative.

For those of you unfamiliar with Fantasy Fights most excellent system for RP, they use "team" concept yet still retain individual slots.

Basically, roll initiative for every PC and group of baddies. The PC's call out their number and those become PC slots, the baddies roll NPC slots. Then arrange in obvious order. You'll get something that looks like this:

PC Slot
PC Slot
NPC Slot
PC Slot
NPC Slot
NPC Slot
PC Slot

Here's how it works. On a valid PC slot during a round, the players decide which PC gets to go at that point, with each player going once per round. Meaning, in our example order above, you have a Pally, a Wizard, a Rogue, and a spoony bard in a barfight with big baddy, minor baddy, and group of henchmen baddies. First up is a PC slot the rogue player rolled, but ops not to take it, instead letting spoony bard go (who rolled the last slot) because he maybe just might have hit on big baddy's wench. Spoony bard takes his turn to run away from Big Baddy, kicking off the fight. Pally who rolled the 3rd slot ops to go in the next slot because someone has to stand up for spoony bard and punches big baddy. Then as the DM, I decide that minor baddy, who is closer to spoony bard then big baddy decides to grapple spoony bard to give him the pummeling his so rightfully deserves. Next slot is a PC slot, so the rogue goes and tries to punch minor baddy, and quickly understands why he doesn't use non-finesse fists of fury. Now as DM I have two NPC slots, and Big Baddy and group of henchmen to go next so I get to decide who goes when. I elect for Big Baddy to ignore stupid pally and punch held spoony bard right in the stomach for great justice. Then I have henchmen jump wizard to stop him from maybe casting some sort of spell. Finally, the wizard gets the last slot and disengages from the mosh pit he suddenly found himself in. Then next round happens, where I use the same slots, but this time maybe the wizard decides he wants to go first, then the rogue.

Its actually really fun, and helps a lot with story.... I always hated it when we're having epic conversation and the barb is like "ENOUGH TALK" and charges in. Then I ask for initiative and he rolls.. a 1. So the guy who rp starts the fight gets to go... last. Seems like everyone else was ready for the fight but the guy who started it. This way I can inform the players that the Barb gets the first PC slot, whatever that happens to be so the rp moves smoothly into combat. The Players really dig it, because instead of them waiting an entire round to roll a dice and miss, they are more opt to stay there and be involved, because the action might dictate they need to go sooner than expected.

Holy ---- tl;dr

This is exactly what a basic d20 roll avoids.

 

[Shadai]

Holy ---- tl;dr

This is exactly what a basic d20 roll avoids.

Read it next time and you'll understand why the basic d20 doesn't always work

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Just a reminder, RAW initiative is that you roll separate init for every enemy.

Nope, book says DM makes one roll for each group of identical creatures (i.e. one roll for "orcs" and one roll for "orc commander". not one roll for each orc being used - or to use a really huge group of monsters, you might have initiative rolls for orc grunts, orc archers, ogres, hill giants, and commander, rather than 300 initiative rolls because there are 300 enemies present)

 

[Gnashtooth]

So somehow Torok and Turg the orc grunts are not individuals? This seems like a case of wishy-washy rules.

With regard to the group initiative, I really enjoy running games at cons using this rule. "Ok, it's your turn. Who goes first? Decide amongst yourselves." It really messes with people that depend on the initiative strategy, and the people who are just there to be competitive at the table.

Forcing a bunch of nerds who don't know each other to talk to each other? Best thing ever.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

So somehow Torok and Turg the orc grunts are not individuals? This seems like a case of wishy-washy rules.

No wishy-washy at all - if they have the same stats, the are one initiative roll. At least that is how it works by-the-book, you can change if you want - just don't claim your changed version as being what it says in the book.

If you are talking about running an encounter with 30 orcs that all have different stats, I think the time taken on rolling initiative for each (use a digital die roller and it takes about the same amount of time as rolling a single physical d20) is the least of your time-sink issues.

 

[Shadai]

Its nice of you to explain, but the guy didn't even want to read a post in his own thread because tl:dr nonsense.

 

[steeldragons]

Having not read the thread beyond the title and OP, so it's probably been said a dozen times by now...but you already know/called it in the OP: speed and ease.

Faster combat. Easier to coordinate (for both/either side).

I will add, been using it since Basic and skipped 3 & 4e...soooo, never really had a reason not to use it. I recall, in 1e, we tried to incorporate weapon speeds for, like, one battle in one game. That was tossed out the window pretty quick.

 

[DMCF]

Does anyone flip flop between the two? I imagine there is a place for each.

One thing I've tried is "clumping" initiatives.

Example:
22: Player
21: Player
17: NPC
16: Player
2: Player
1: NPC

Translates to:

4: Player + Player
3: NPC Type I
2: Player + Player
1: NPC Type II


This hasn't encouraged them much to play off each other's abilities. Instead they tend to just "go first or wait". I'd rather clump them together because over time it means they have to think of a variety of strategies. I feel like group initiative will help get the ball rolling and I can start complicating things later.

 

[DMCF]

I tried group initiative with 8 players yesterday. CHAOS! I explained the way I outline above and they said it was preferred. Lo and behold we end up on Quaggoth Beach with 8 Quaggoths flexing at each other (We're in SoCal so think Muscle Beach in Venice). Since there was only one NPC type we ended up with the general group initiative. I thought "lets give it a go".

Everyone was moving at once, people were saying other people almost got killed because they stepped in front of their "Burning Hands" etc. I told them they would have to adjust their tactics in this type of battle but they spent so much time building 20 different strategies that I really had to keep reminding people the store had closing hours. There were no fights however, so I think everything went OK for a table with 9 people.