D&D (2024) IF you're allowing a PC to roll, WHEN does autosuccess matter?

[Clint_L]

Why on earth would the dramatic importance of something happening alter the possibility of something happening? This is not a novel, this is a game. Games have rules, and players who are at all good at math should, barring hidden information such as "there's a trap in that door" almost always be able to closely estimate the probabilities of any action before deciding if they will attempt that action. DM's who just change stuff because they of their "judgement of the state of the fiction" are wrecking the implicit social contract between the DM and the players.

Hard disagree. While a DM should not be arbitrary and should judge DCs based on the circumstances, those circumstances absolutely introduce variables that result from the story. In other words, this is both a game and a story, and the DM's judgment should, IMO, always take narrative logic into account. I don't hesitate to override RAW if they lead to an outcome that doesn't make sense, and to me that is the essence of the social contract that makes this a roleplaying game and not Monopoly. The primary function of D&D, IMO is to produce a fun, shared story, not to win at a game.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

this is why we need complex tables in PHB for skills, and not, DM will handle it as we are too lazy to put the work ourselves in designing our game.

Do you genuinely think that's due to lazyness and not the expectation that most gamers don't like complex tables?

 

[Horwath]

Do you genuinely think that's due to lazyness and not the expectation that most gamers don't like complex tables?

since they did something in Xanatar for tools DCs, it's obviously that they missed it, didn't have time or idea for it in PHB,
How hard is to have one or two examples for every skill/tool for every DC from 5 to 30?

 

[Retros_x]

this is why we need complex tables in PHB for skills, and not, DM will handle it as we are too lazy to put the work ourselves in designing our game.

The amount of time I had to default to 3.5e skill table for 5e sessions is absurd.

Funnily, the amount of time I had to default to 3.5e skill tables is zero.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Do you genuinely think that's due to lazyness and not the expectation that most gamers don't like complex tables?

Laziness and tacitly insulting the intelligence of their playerbase go hand in hand because the later is a handy excuse for the former.

 

[CleverNickName]

The way I see it, rolling a nat-20 means your character got the best possible result. Depending on circumstance, the best possible result still might not be the instant win you're looking for. Your nat-20 Persuasion before the court isn't going to make everyone forgive you for murdering half the town guard...that's just not possible. But it might get your death sentence reduced to exile, because that's the best possible result you can hope for.

 

[Maxperson]

It seems obvious to me that some tasks will have a different DC depending on who is attempting it. Consider catching hold of something dangling from a ceiling 3 meters above the ground. The Halfling will have to jump to 3 times his own height to grab it, that's a hard Athletics check if it's even possible, while the Goliath can simply reach for it, automatic success.

I often gate roll behind proficiency. Non-proficient = impossible. Proficient = possible. I do this for obscure information or complex physical skill necessary. Other times a particular piece of information might be hard for someone untrained, but likely taught to someone trained, so the DC will simply be easier for the trained individual on top of the increased bonus. DC 12 for the trained person and DC 18 for the untrained person. For things that could be learned easily trained or untrained, the DC will be static for everyone. DC 12 and roll.

 

[ReshiIRE]

DND 5e could easily adopt a version of the Simple Skills DC (no level) table from Pathfinder 2e* along with the DC adjustments table**; that would be an excellent starting point for DCs and being able to adjust them to account for proficiency or not.

* DC increasing in steps of 5 - 10, 15, 20, 25, 30. This corresponds to Pathfinder 2e's proficiency scaling - Untrained, Trained, Expert, Master, Legendary (0, 2, 4, 6, 8 proficiency bonus to a skill).

** The numbers are still very different in Pathfinder 2e, along with proficiency; so I'm not sure how useful the default DC adjustment table will be - that goes in steps from 2 to 5 to 10, negative and positive, from incredibly easy to incredibly hard. Perhaps for 5e, adjustments of 1 to 3 to 5 would be most appropriate.