Ignore?

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Is it possible to make it so that we can choose to see what user is behind the “this content is from a user on your ignore list” wall?

Or even just...not undo the ignore for the entire thread?

Like, the new system makes temp-ignore pretty weird.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Is it possible to make it so that we can choose to see what user is behind the “this content is from a user on your ignore list” wall?

Or even just...not undo the ignore for the entire thread?

Like, the new system makes temp-ignore pretty weird.
No, that’s not how Xenforo’s software works. The way you see it is it.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
No, that’s not how Xenforo’s software works. The way you see it is it.
Man that’s...a real bummer.

Not your fault the platform doesn’t have options for this sort of thing, but it still sucks that they just have a single solution with no variation in settings or implementation.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
No, that’s not how Xenforo’s software works. The way you see it is it.
From what I understand, there is a plug-in from WMTech that has the same functionality that we used to have. It's an extension to the deafult ignore feature and doesn't cause and additional system load issues.

I'm going back to mentioning this and bumping the thread because I am increasingly dissatisfied with the current implementation; either you end up reporting things to mods (who have better things to do with their time) which isn't very scalable, or you let it slide, and IME the "letting it slide" tends to, over time, gradually degrade the discourse on all sides.

If this is an option (WMTech User Blocking System) then I am willing to pay part or all of the license fee as my contribution. :)
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
From what I understand, there is a plug-in from WMTech that has the same functionality that we used to have. It's an extension to the deafult ignore feature and doesn't cause and additional system load issues.

I'm going back to mentioning this and bumping the thread because I am increasingly dissatisfied with the current implementation; either you end up reporting things to mods (who have better things to do with their time) which isn't very scalable, or you let it slide, and IME the "letting it slide" tends to, over time, gradually degrade the discourse on all sides.

If this is an option (WMTech User Blocking System) then I am willing to pay part or all of the license fee as my contribution. :)
Just here to say that I would also be willing to lend material support to this.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Quick search suggests... that plugin is not currently maintained, and hasn't been updated in four years?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Yes, I’ve seen it before. It’s for for an older version of Xenforo. No use to us. Plus, as Umbran says, the developer does not maintain or support it well.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Well, the last update I see is July 3, 2019, and the developer says that since XF 2 doesn't have the block feature, they are working on the code to update and release it (the WMTech addon). We'll see on that one. Words are easier than code. ;)

Source:

This thread-


...shows the ongoing debate (as of September of this year) but still no implementation.

...and there's nothing similar yet at xf2addons.


But I'll keep an eye out. :)
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
There's also the matter of if the developer is slow to update his mods to the current software iteration, you can't rely on him to do it in a time manner for future iterations -- leading to a broken site (a repeating problem which our old site was plagued by, and why I keep this code base fairly clean). Xenforo 2 has been out for quite a while now!
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Mod Note:
No, nobody is in trouble. The color is so that people who are catching up on this take note of it.

The current ignore feature pretty obviously isn't working for everyone. So, I will be trying a bit of an experiment. Within a given thread, if you have been playing by the rules (so, not being rude or aggressive, or otherwise acting to create problems) and you politely ask someone to leave you alone, within that thread, I'll see if I can support that non-contact request.

We expect you to quietly use the Ignore feature first, and ask for this only when that's insufficient. We CANNOT enforce such things broadly - it can hold only within a particular thread. Nor can we do so for extended periods of time. And if you find yourself asking for non-contact frequently, we are going to have a discussion about whether you are creating your own issues, and how to manage that. And I cannot promise very fast response time - I typically get to issues within a day, but I make no promises.

And, if you ask for non-contact, and it is found that you have actively been creating the issue, I am apt to boot you from the thread in question - you do not get to annoy people, and then use the moderator to shield you from your poor choices.

I do not know how well this will function, but it is worth trying, as a bit of a last resort between parties. Use it wisely.
 

LordEntrails

Adventurer
I like the way Ignore works now. I really found the old method unfriendly and actually it was ... aggressive. Because of the way it screwed up links, you could use it to 'punish' a person you were annoyed with. IMO, if someone is tempted by seeing that someone they ignored has posted in a thread, well be mature and self-disciplined enough not to open their response. And the fact that you could not see a thread started by someone ignored, it was exclusionary and imo contrary to posting on a public forum.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
I like the way Ignore works now. I really found the old method unfriendly and actually it was ... aggressive. Because of the way it screwed up links, you could use it to 'punish' a person you were annoyed with. IMO, if someone is tempted by seeing that someone they ignored has posted in a thread, well be mature and self-disciplined enough not to open their response. And the fact that you could not see a thread started by someone ignored, it was exclusionary and imo contrary to posting on a public forum.
Increasingly, I think that there is an insoluble divide between two types of people:

1. Those that believe that, if you ask someone to stop engaging with you, they should stop; and

2. Those that believe that if you ask someone to stop engaging with you, that is just an opportunity to exclaim, "You don't tell me what to do! This is the internet!"

Given that I fall in the first camp, I am not going to blame those that wish to disengage as that is something I sometimes need to do myself. A public forum is not an end to civility*, and good fences make good neighbors.


*And to the extent it is, signal < noise. And that's not why most of us are here.
 
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CapnZapp

Hero
The way post counts and links were misaligned by the ignore system on the old forum was AFAIK unintentional behavior (=a bug) and there is no reason to believe a well-coded new addon will repeat that behavior. This is after all a brand new forum software. I see no reason to oppose it and I fully empathize with people wanting stalkers off their backs. Just please make sure the block system doesn't make posts by people that haven't put you on their ignore list or been ignored by you inaccessible (such as by disabling an entire thread just because the first post was written by somebody blocked by/blocking you). Regards
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
The way post counts and links were misaligned by the ignore system on the old forum was AFAIK unintentional behavior (=a bug) and there is no reason to believe a well-coded new addon will repeat that behavior. This is after all a brand new forum software. I see no reason to oppose it and I fully empathize with people wanting stalkers off their backs. Just please make sure the block system doesn't make posts by people that haven't put you on their ignore list or been ignored by you inaccessible (such as by disabling an entire thread just because the first post was written by somebody blocked by/blocking you). Regards
I agree completely regarding the post counts/links bug. That wasn't fun for anyone.
 

LordEntrails

Adventurer
I dont see those two polarities at all. Of course 1 is true. And if 2 happens then that is what moderators are for. Limiting expression and accessibility if someone wants it is, imo, not worth the additional moderation efforts required.

I see the new behavior putting more capability into the users hands. I can choose to mark them as someone toxic to myself (ie ignore them) but then on a case by case basis choose to read what they post. Things are clear that I have ignored them, but from context of other posts it might appear tha th they have something valuable to add and then I can take a look and see.

IMO, one of the challenges our connected world faces is our willingness to not even be aware what those who voice an opinion different than our have to say. Or even th hat they exist. The old ignore system simple removes that voice from our world, and the fact that their might be a dissenting opinion becomes kept from us.

I never want to be ignorant that a dissenting opinion exists, even if I choose not to inform myself what that opinion is. And, the two way block allows someone else to remove my choice to know they even exist. I dont see any good coming from a system with the implications of the other system.
 
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lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
I dont see those two polarities at all. Of course 1 is true. And if 2 happens then that is what moderators are for. Limiting expression and accessibility if someone wants it is, imo, not worth the additional moderation efforts required.

I see the new behavior putting more capability into the users hands. I can choose to mark them as someone toxic to myself (ie ignore them) but then on a case by case basis choose to read what they post. Things are clear that I have ignored them, but from context of other posts it might appear tha th they have something valuable to add and then I can take a look and see.

IMO, one of the challenges our connected world faces is our willingness to not even be aware what those who voice an opinion different than our have to say. Or even th hat they exist. The old ignore system simple removes that voice from our world, and the fact that their might be a dissenting opinion becomes kept from us.

I never want to be ignorant that a dissenting opinion exists, even if I choose not to inform myself what that opinion is. And, the two way block allows someone else to allow me the choice to know they even exist. I dont see any good coming from a system with the implications of the other system.
Well, no.

I hear what you're saying, since this is a debate that we've had here, and that you can see in other places that have had this issue. In fact, if you look at the link to the Xenforo sites, you see the same points being made (people requesting the implementation because their users are demanding it, and then someone saying, "Actually, this is about freedom of expression!").

Look, your point is your point, and you are welcome to it. Unfortunately, it rarely works that way on the internet, and when you say something like "I never want to be ignorant that a dissenting opinion exists," what I hear is someone saying, "You have no right to be left alone from me, and I will chase you down to the ends of the earth because I think my opinion is so right it needs to be heard, and I don't understand how this harassment affects other people and makes life and conversation intolerable." If you need to be heard, go to twitter.

Put another way- this is a fun place where, for the most part, we are discussing elves and dragons and unicorns. IMO, no one's opinion is so important that it overrides my right to be left the heck alone. And I don't think it's fair to the few moderators we have, either, especially when the ignore function is so barely functional that it doesn't work for the people that use it, and only seems to work for the people that demand that their opinions be heard. An ignore function that only seems to work to protect the loud voices clamoring to say just one more thing is hardly a solution.

But that's just my opinion.

Thanks!
 

LordEntrails

Adventurer
Look, your point is your point, and you are welcome to it. Unfortunately, it rarely works that way on the internet, and when you say something like "I never want to be ignorant that a dissenting opinion exists," what I hear is someone saying, "You have no right to be left alone from me, and I will chase you down to the ends of the earth because I think my opinion is so right it needs to be heard, and I don't understand how this harassment affects other people and makes life and conversation intolerable." If you need to be heard, go to twitter.
You obviously have a well informed opinion and have thought this out. But I do not think you are actually hearing what I'm saying. You think you know my view or side of things and you then assume you know how you feel. But I'm not saying what you say I'm saying.

First, it can work. Just because it doesn't always work does not means we should advocate for oppression. Think of all the parallels one could draw to sexism, racism and other forms of discrimination. It all starts and is fostered somewhere.

"... chase you down..." statement is a while lot of fun hyperbole, but no where near any reality of what I said or intend. And by jumping to such a conclusion is what makes me think you are not hearing me.

No where did I suggest harrassment be tolerated. Instead I said automated systems that are overly negative are not worth, imo, the reduced workload required of moderators. Someone intent on harrassment can do so regardless of what automated system is in place, hence the need for moderators.

Of course, only Morrus and the mods can determine if their workload is worth the restrictions (as they see them) such a system might entail. I also suggest that if it ain't really broken, then dont "fix" it. Even the little issue I'm aware of regarding you and ignore in another thread is not worth such. It was easily solved.

[/quote]Put another way- this is a fun place where, for the most part, we are discussing elves and dragons and unicorns. IMO, no one's opinion is so important that it overrides my right to be left the heck alone. And I don't think it's fair to the few moderators we have, either. But that's my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not suggesting your right to be left alone be jeopardized. But your right to be left alone runs up against everyone else's right to be informed and aware when you decide to engage in the community, and to then read a post that has been marked as written by an ignored user.

Someone you have ignored still has a right to respond to public comments you make. It is your choice if you choses to read them.
 
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