I'll tear your soul apart - Themed Summoners.....

[Darmanicus]

For quite some time now I've been interested in creating a Specialist Summoner that's themed. Having bought Complete Arcane the Alienist looks cool and really fits in with a certain concept I've been toying with......a Clive Barker stylie Alienist who summons Hellraiser type creatures.

1 creature immediately sprung to mind, the Kyton or Chain Devil. This could be advanced so you could use it at higher levels but what about lower level stuff and other possible critters?

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this and has anyone done a themed Summoner?

 

[noeuphoria]

Well, if I recall, all the demons in hellraiser were vaugly humanoid, and I can see why Kyton reminds you of pinhead, what with his chains. If you're going to run with this themed summon, I might substitute a humanoid with class levels similar to a CR of a creature already on the list. So if you cast summon monster 4, and most of the creatures are CR 5, then say you summon a pseudonatural human rogue level 4 (he becomes CR 5 by adding the pseudonatural template). You could feel free to expound on what they look like, maybe even creating certain named people you summon every time. That way, different levels of Summon Monster correspond to calling different 'cinnabites' (I think that's what they were called in the movie), with summon monster 9 being their leader, an advanced pseudonatural kyton.

 

[Darmanicus]

That's not a bad idea actually, cheers mate.

 

[cmanos]

That way, different levels of Summon Monster correspond to calling different 'cinnabites' (I think that's what they were called in the movie),

Yep, but spelled CENOBITE. Ironic that they used the word for members of a religeous order to describe demons ...

I like the idea. I don't have my complete acrane with me, but what exactly can you apply the 'alien' template to?

 

[Darmanicus]

I like the idea. I don't have my complete acrane with me, but what exactly can you apply the 'alien' template to?

It's the 'Pseudonatural' template and it can be applied to anything, IIRC, that already has the celestial or fiendish template.

I suppose then that would mean houseruling Noeuphoria's idea but I don't see a problem with that.

 

[yennico]

Summoning a human rogue level X by a summon spell is not a good idea, because this human rogue has no equipment. No armor, no magical equipment. Summon Monster summons normally only the monster not the equipment.

 

[Darmanicus]

Summon Monster summons normally only the monster not the equipment.

Where do you get that from? As far as I can recall if you summon, say a Bralani Eladrin, the guy/gal comes with it's holy bow and scimitar.

I'd say that if you were to rule that you can summon humanoids with levels, then they'd come equipped at the DM's discretion.

 

[yennico]

Where do you get that from? As far as I can recall if you summon, say a Bralani Eladrin, the guy/gal comes with it's holy bow and scimitar.

You are correct. The summoned humanoid monsters out of the MMs will be summoned with their equipment.

I'd say that if you were to rule that you can summon humanoids with levels, then they'd come equipped at the DM's discretion.

If your GM allows it, it is ok for your game.
If you want to summon e.g a duergar ranger with an summon monster spell, which of the equipment this humanoid has is magical?
If it is ok for your GM you can build this duergar ranger as a NPC with equipment, but I as GM would not allow this because so the player builds summoned humanoids with class levels with equipement they need in a special situation e.g. The rogue of the party can not pick the lock of a door and the spellcasters do not have access to the knock spell. So the summoner summons a rogue with wand of knock. or if the party needs a potion of healing (an item every PC and NPC of higher level normally will have) for a dying companion, the summoner summons a rogue with this potion who walks to the dying PC and uses this potion on the dying PC.
Imagine other situations:
Spellcasters with spells the party need in a situation. I want a summon cleric *lol* the healing machine for all if the cleric of the party runs out of spells. If the summoned cleric runs out of spells, summon another...

 

[Darmanicus]

You are correct. The summoned humanoid monsters out of the MMs will be summoned with their equipment.

Thought as much


If your GM allows it, it is ok for your game.
If you want to summon e.g a duergar ranger with an summon monster spell, which of the equipment this humanoid has is magical?
If it is ok for your GM you can build this duergar ranger as a NPC with equipment, but I as GM would not allow this because so the player builds summoned humanoids with class levels with equipement they need in a special situation e.g. The rogue of the party can not pick the lock of a door and the spellcasters do not have access to the knock spell. So the summoner summons a rogue with wand of knock. or if the party needs a potion of healing (an item every PC and NPC of higher level normally will have) for a dying companion, the summoner summons a rogue with this potion who walks to the dying PC and uses this potion on the dying PC.
Imagine other situations:
Spellcasters with spells the party need in a situation. I want a summon cleric *lol* the healing machine for all if the cleric of the party runs out of spells. If the summoned cleric runs out of spells, summon another...

That's why I said the DM should choose the equipment hopefully based on your suggestions. With regards to creatures that can cast spells the party hasn't got or has run out of, you can do this anyway by summoning, say, a lillend. The only restrictions on powers are them summoning or teleporting.

 

[yennico]

With regards to creatures that can cast spells the party hasn't got or has run out of, you can do this anyway by summoning, say, a lillend. The only restrictions on powers are them summoning or teleporting.

You are correct that you can summon a monster with spellcasting abilities, but with summon humanoid with a class you can summon humanoids with spellcasting abilities much earlier.
It is a big difference to summon with summon monster III e.g. a human cleric or sorcerer level 3 instead of a e.g. fiendish animal.
With a summon monster IV you also can summon 1d3 monster of summon monster III. So summon humanoid with a class IV can summon 1d3 human clerics or sorcerers level 3.
Most (equiped) humanoids with a class are IMHO better than the summoned creatures.