Illusion Question

[Stalker0]

I actually agree with Hong , a skill check that basically completely neuter's Illusions that can be consistantly made by the low 20's is really not a good idea.

The ELH seems to be kinda nasty to magic in general though (Saves scale but Spell DCs don't automatically (this gets worse in 3.5e when DC boosts from other sources now stop but save increases keep going)).

That and everyone at epic levels starts getting true seeing goggles, and mind blank hats... a lot of specialist wizards get hosed on their key spells.

 

[Thanee]

The ELH DC is silly not just because it's a number apparently pulled out of thin air, but because it provides a means of bypassing the core mechanic for dealing with spells.

Not as easy as Arcane Sight, tho, which basically automatically detects all illusions within sight.

Bye
Thanee

 

[hong]

Not as easy as Arcane Sight, tho, which basically automatically detects all illusions within sight.

Bye
Thanee

Arcane sight _detects_ the illusion. It doesn't let you _see through it_, which is what the saving throw does.

 

[Thanee]

Actually, depending on the type of illusion, that will result in an automatic disbelief (no save necessary).

Bye
Thanee

 

[hong]

Actually, depending on the type of illusion, that will result in an automatic disbelief (no save necessary).

Bye
Thanee

Why?

 

[Thanee]

If you have a proof, that something is illusory (I think that's with figments) you need no save.

Bye
Thanee

 

[hong]

If you have a proof, that something is illusory (I think that's with figments) you need no save.

Bye
Thanee

You have proof it's an Illusion spell. That doesn't necessarily mean it's an Illusion (figment) spell. It could just as well be an Illusion (shadow), Illusion (phantasm) or Illusion (glamer), and you'll be very embarrassed if you try to walk through it.

 

[dcollins]

The rule that "A character faced with incontrovertible proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw" applies to all illusions, not just figments. (PHB ch 10: Illusions)

 

[hong]

The rule that "A character faced with incontrovertible proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw" applies to all illusions, not just figments. (PHB ch 10: Illusions)

Arcane sight tells you an illusion exists. It doesn't tell you an illusion isn't real. In the case of shadows, for example, an illusion can exist and yet be partially real. Furthermore, the illusion might be one that doesn't allow a disbelief save. Just because there's an illusion aura on a chest doesn't necessarily mean anything; it might be a shadow conjuration, a magic mouth, or a silent image. Therefore, saying that arcane sight counts as "incontrovertible proof" seems weak to me.

 

[Thanee]

Ok, there might be situations, where you cannot easily discern, which is the illusion, but usually you should be able to by using arcane sight.

You look at something, your spell tells you it's an illusion.
How much more proof do you need to say, that it is an illusion you are looking at?

Bye
Thanee