Illusionary floor pit trap, what's the saving throw?

[Darkness]

But they are still mechanical, and there is still that momment of contact.

Yeah, but an illusion has less room for error than a larger trap. If the floor around you (not just beneath you) collapses, you need to be really fast. Both are hard to avoid for their own reasons.

Plus there is that problem that your are changing a saving throw for a spell, that the mind influencing portion of it is taken out of play.

True, that. It's strange that the DMG doesn't have specific rules for pits concealed with illusions, even though they aren't exactly far-fetched in D&D. Which means we either have to treat them like all other traps (but must figure out the proper the save DC on our own) or make up our own rules.

Actually looking back though my post I have another thought. At the moment that their foot is falling into the hole they get a Will saving throw. Failure means they don't believe their foot could be going through. If they make the saving throw they get the DC 20/DC 25 Reflex as per normal pit trap. Failure means....hmmm, they take a header and get a chance to Climb check at those horrific Surface+20 DCs once the Illusion is obvious to them.

That saving throw might also be explained as noticing small pebbles passing into the illusion, dust swirling incorrectly, etc. as you get close to the illusion. Thus that meets the "interaction" requirement to get a saving throw.

That's a little complicated but the reasoning seems sound to me. Not more complicated than phantasmal killer, though, which is an illusion as well.

 

[Stalker0]

IMO, all the illusion does is make this a very well covered pit trap. But you get a reflex save as normal for a pit trap. As others have mentioned, between 20 and 25.

 

[dcollins]

In my 3.0 DMG under "Sample Magic Traps" I've got this:

Illusion over Spiked Pit, 20 Ft. Deep: CR 3; no attack roll required (2d6), +10 melee (1d4 spike attacks for 1d4+2 points of damage per successful hit); Reflex save (DC 20) negates; Search (DC 20); Disable Device (DC 20).

 

[sullivan]

In my 3.0 DMG under "Sample Magic Traps" I've got this:

LOL, here I was looking in supplemental books for the trap and the DMG what under I thought appropriate topics. I did glance through the traps but obviously I didn't look hard enough.

Anyway how exactly to you "Disarm" such a trap??? That seems bizzare. I mean there are no moving parts. How much skill does it take to use a shovel to fill it up with dirt?

 

[dcollins]

Anyway how exactly to you "Disarm" such a trap??? That seems bizzare. I mean there are no moving parts. How much skill does it take to use a shovel to fill it up with dirt?

Remember that Rogues have the special class ability to disarm magic traps -- but it's never explained (flavor-text-wise) in the core rules. So, lots of people have come up with different explanations for that.

 

[Li Shenron]

Am I the only one thinking about a Spot checks instead of a ST here? Maybe the character may notice a small "mistake" in the illusion, such as a semi-transparency, although the DC should probably be very high, and success would just generically hint that something is not what it seems.

I think that putting one foot over the hidden opening and having the reflexes to "take the foot back" before falling sounds quite impossible for non-epic characters, but if I give a roll for that, instead of a reflex save I'd prefer a Balance check.

I also like the idea of catching when falling, and I would also add the possibility for the others to catch you as you fall (if you are within reach) with a touch attack roll.

 

[Particle_Man]

Am I the only one thinking about a Spot checks instead of a ST here?

There is something like this in the epic-level handbook. The spot DC is 80.