I'm getting Edition War fatigue

[JohnSnow]

Y'know, I think you're right.

And I say this as someone who gets drawn into Edition Wars more often than I would like. I don't honestly care what edition people play, or whether they think my preferred edition stinks like mule sweat. However, it seems some people feel they can only justify what they play by critiquing what someone else does. Moreove, since I like the edition I play, I'll defend it if someone says it stinks like mule sweat.

I think it would be helpful if we could all agree to keep our replies edition (or even system!) neutral as much as possible and to put a moratorium on "play something other than what you're playing" as a response. It's rarely helpful, and often nothing but argumentative.

For instance, I'm pretty sure that if I started a thread asking for suggestions
on how to improve player engagement in roleplaying in my 4e game, some wise-acre would chime in with some version of "don't play 4e." I think people generally state what system they play as a shorthand way of conveying their starting point, but some folks take that as an invitation to sound the clarion call for their favorite system. Frankly, I don't care what system someone plays, that's just douche-y.

Any suggestion to try a different system needs to be approached delicately and diplomatically or not at all. And frequently, it seems some people's idea of a "diplomatic approach" is using a smaller cannon.

But yeah, I'm very tired of edition and system wars. It goes against productive discussion. On the other hand, since this thread is an "anti-Edition War" thread, that means it's almost bound to turn into one.

 

[TheNovaLord]

discussions you tire off, and maybe dont like is all part of freedom of expression, and long may it reign

i think the mods et al keep a pretty tight reign, too tight IMO, of the boards

when PHB IX comes out and PF 5th ed there will still be debate and discussion and people saying one edition is better than another....and ill raise a glass to such discussion and debate and disagreement

 

[Alan Shutko]

I may be misremembering, but wasn't there a time during 3e where we could show up and talk about how best to deal with an issue without comparing everything in the discussion with 2e or 1e? At least until hong showed up and won the thread.

Sure, because 3e was new, and the folks who liked other editions were predominately on other sites. EN World was basically a 3e site.

Now it's expanded to include 4e, but a lot of the posters who like 3e are still here. There's bound to be discussion of both systems. It seems to me the solution would be to stick to edition-specific subforums or edition-specific sites.

EN World could decide to become edition-specific, but I think the current consensus is that even with some debate, it's better the way it is.

 

[Spatula]

I can't help but feel a little burned about my the constant negativity. Contrast this with some actually helpful threads for both 4e and 3e and I can't help but wonder why we need to argue any longer.

I guess what I'm saying is...can't we all just get along? Or is it actually impossible for people with differing opinions to occupy the same space?

Head over to rpg.net's D&D forum. Seriously. You don't have to live in edition war land. I rarely come by here anymore because of the endless trolling and bile that creeps into a lot of general rpg threads (and I don't blame the ENWorld moderators - the communities are simply different, it seems). Not that rpg.net is D&D paradise, but the negativity doesn't bleed into everything.

Also, there's a very high signal to noise ratio for useful 4e advice and brainstorming there, IMO. It just feels like the most active posters here prefer arguing about taste rather than actually discussing running the game.

 

[Cadfan]

I remember a comment on boardgamegeek... the topic of conversation was the constant warring about the game "Dominion." Dominion is a pretty popular game with a lot of fans, and as a result there's a constant stream of threads accusing Dominion of being overrated, of being a "solved" game, etc, etc. And pro-Dominion threads invariably descend into squabbling when people who hate Dominion show up to rain on the party.

Anyways, someone asked why people who don't like Dominion feel compelled to constantly try to tear it down, and one person responded that he had a friend who was part of the anti-Dominion crowd, one of the people who constantly posted about Dominion not being a very good game. And he said that his friend told him that he felt that there was a strong "pro-Dominion" faction on the forum that needed to be "fought against."

If I ever figure out what that means, I'll let you know.

 

[I'm A Banana]

If I ever figure out what that means, I'll let you know.

Foundation of all human conflict: "You're picking on me!"/"No, you're picking on me!"

Toddlers play the "you started it game" over and over.

And countries tend to play it whenever they go to war.

You're always the good guy, the other guy is always the bad guy.

Truth is usually that both sides have some jerks, which draws in average people against said jerks on each side.

Edition Wars aren't much different. Fanbois and haters both have problems accepting the validity of someone else's position.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Sure, because 3e was new, and the folks who liked other editions were predominately on other sites. EN World was basically a 3e site.

I think it was more likely that the adoption rate of 3e was higher than 4e. I think that the people who are now playing a pre 3e version of D&D as their primary game system are a fairly small, niche group(I love you guys!). But I think the key is that they KNOW they are a small, niche group. They don't often show up in threads saying "You should be playing 1e instead"(diaglo excepted) because they know that they aren't going to convince anyone.

But it seems that there are a lot of people who still feel they can "win" D&D. Which is to say, there is an undercurrent of "If we convince just enough people that 4e was a bad idea, WOTC will completely abandon it and go back to 3e. Either that or Pathfinder will win and WOTC will die. Therefore, the only D&D available will be our D&D."

I realized right at the beginning of the edition wars that I was doing the same thing but in reverse, trying to convince all of the unconverted to join us. Partially because I was frustrated at the sudden split in the player population. I lost a bunch of friends who I only saw at D&D and they refused to play 4e. The number of people I knew who played "D&D"(which became 4e for me as soon as I switched) dropped about 25%. It was more difficult to get people together for a game.

To add to the frustrations, most of the people I knew who didn't switch didn't even read the books. They started with "I refuse to buy any more D&D books ever. I don't even want to read them." So, it wasn't like there was a way to logically argue with them.

Now it's expanded to include 4e, but a lot of the posters who like 3e are still here. There's bound to be discussion of both systems. It seems to me the solution would be to stick to edition-specific subforums or edition-specific sites.

Well, this board was pretty 3e specific when I joined it. I mean, it was the 3e news site. But I'm unaware of any 4e specific sites with any real traffic. Not even the official WOTC boards are necessarily 4e specific. On anything that isn't a 4e rules specific board over there, the edition war is still in full force. Probably even worse than it is here.

I'll be honest. I hang around these message boards when I get bored. If I refresh the general board every 15 or 20 minutes, there are a bunch of new posts to reply to. If I do the same with the 4e message boards, I can wait hours before I see even one new message.

So, I hang out here in an effort to have general RPG conversations with my "friends"(Which I like to think the people of this board are. There are too few people who are in our hobby to alienate a bunch of people over something as silly as which version of D&D we play).

I just don't like to see all my friends not getting along.

 

[Nifft]

I just don't like to see all my friends not getting along.

Unfortunately, it turns out that mommy & daddy fight because you cry.

"Posting until morale improves", -- N

 

[BryonD]

The problem is, at this point we know everyone's opinions. At this point I haven't seen much useful advice on running games that makes sense in a 4e environment on the general board.

No to be snippy, but isn't that what the 4e boards are for?

I guess it depends what you mean by "pro-4E side". I don't see it as there being "sides". There are people won't don't play 4e, people who won't play 4e, people who have played and quit, people who are currently playing and have small issues, people who play but have houseruled the game so much it doesn't resemble 4e. All of whom have differing opinions on stuff.

That's fine, it's what makes us human. It's just that it's gotten to the point that if I start a thread about how much I like the RPGA, I get a huge number of replies about how the RPGA sucks and they are ruining gaming for everyone. Someone starts a thread about how they are looking forward to a new book coming out and there is suddenly a "I'm not going to be buying that book, but I don't buy anything 4e" post. Someone posts about how they had a lot of fun with an adventure and there are replies saying that All WOTC adventures suck and no one could have had fun with it because 4e encourages hack and slash with no roleplaying at all. Then there are the random "4e is not D&D" posts.

You used the word "hate". That seemed to define a sides point of view. And you listed examples of thread titles to back up that claim of hate.

You didn't say anything about the RPGA. I only replied to what you said. It sounds like replying to what you said may not have been very relevant to what you were thinking.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Unfortunately, it turns out that mommy & daddy fight because you cry.

"Posting until morale improves", -- N

NOOO. Such a vicious circle. I cry because they fight. But they fight because I cry.

Excuse me while I curl up in a fetal position unable to act for fear of starting a fight.