D&D 4E I'm pro-4E because I'm anti anti-4E people.

[Wisdom Penalty]

When 4E was announced, I had my apprehensions. I had lots and lots of 3E and 3.5E stuff sitting around waiting to help me TPK my group. I was concerned about some of the flavor changes. I was worried "my D&D" would be forever changed from his kernel of truth; this was hard to swallow because I've been playing since the late 70's.

I started to post some of my concerns and voice thoughts against some of the design snippets we'd been shown. But a strange thing happened on the way to my anti-establishment mindset. I took a look around at those who were with me, and I read what they said, and I winced at the manner in which they said it.

And then, slowly but surely - perhaps inevitably, I began to become anti anti-4E. I got tired of the same tired names putting up the same tired posts with the same tired emote icons. I got tired of the hyperbole and condescension. I got tired of the same arguments being trotted out one time or another. I got tired of the indiscriminate leveling of "fanboi" status on anyone who - gods forbid - was positive or enthusiastic about the new changes.

So one morning not too long ago I woke up and realized: Holy hell, I'm pro-4E!

Irony, folks. Irony.

W.P.

 

[architect.zero]

I've got a funny feeling that this thread won't survive the mods for very long, so I'll try to get my words in...

First of all, I know what you're saying. The anti-4e can drive one to drink, or in this case, drive one to be anti-anti-4e. However, I'd say that the pro-4e crowd with their constant cooing over this or that questionable feature etc... is driving some people to simply be anti-pro-4e.

Why I'm actually responding to this thread is simple: no one except WoTC and its play testers have even seen 4e. All we've seen are previews, and at this point I garuantee that not even the Elf writeup is set in stone.

At this point no one can rationally claim to be anti or pro 4e, only anti or pro 4e previews. Until that final product shows up all of these rants, for or against, are nothing but hot air and any speculation, while sometimes fun, is just that speculation.

I wish people could save their pro or anti stances for the actual game, when they have it in their hands, have read it, and played at least one session with it. But this is the internet... so, carry on.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

I've got a funny feeling that this thread won't survive the mods for very long...

Why?

I wish people could save their pro or anti stances for the actual game, when they have it in their hands, have read it, and played at least one session with it...(

We agree on that. We also agree it'll never happen.

W.P.

 

[Darkwolf71]

Pretty much what a.z said.


I think, with minimal editing, your previous comment can be just as valid for the other side of the coin.

I got tired of the same tired names putting up the same tired posts with the same tired emote icons. I got tired of the hyperbole and condescension. I got tired of the same arguments being trotted out one time or another. I got tired of the indiscriminate leveling of "Grognard" status on anyone who - gods forbid - was negative or aprehensive about the new changes.

I mean, we have only recently been seing actual hard info about the game. Some smites, the new Elf, a couple feats. Personnaly, I see things to like and dislike. Interesting, to be sure, but not enough to make an honest decision with. For or against. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Even an un-informed one, if they insist. But the flaming of each side by the other is really overboard.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

I think, with minimal editing, your previous comment can be just as valid for the other side of the coin.

Good point. And I thought about that when I posted, and wondered how long until someone did just that. Witness the vicious circle. But I think even an impartial person - and I won't lump myself in that crowd anymore - would have to admit that the negativity is much more pronounced on the anti-4E side. Perhaps that's simply because it's easier to be against something than for something. I dunno.

 

[Imaro]

This post just seems purposefully inflamatory. It straddles the line of a group attack and brings nothing really productive for discussion. All I can say is no one and no group is going to make my decisions for me, I like what I like and don't like what I don't like...but, to each his own.

Side Note: In before this thread bursts into flames.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

All I can say is no one and no group is going to make my decisions for me, I like what I like and don't like what I don't like...but, to each his own.

QFT

The grognards and the kool-aid drinkers are both annoying as hell.

 

[zoroaster100]

O.k., this thread just made me decide to become anti- anti- anti- 4E, which means now I will not like 4E, or does that mean I'll like 4E? Hard to keep track of so many anti-'s. O.k. never mind. I'm just going to wait for the 4E rulebooks to come out and see whether or not I like the new rules when read in full.

 

[pawsplay]

Good point. And I thought about that when I posted, and wondered how long until someone did just that. Witness the vicious circle. But I think even an impartial person - and I won't lump myself in that crowd anymore - would have to admit that the negativity is much more pronounced on the anti-4E side. Perhaps that's simply because it's easier to be against something than for something. I dunno.

How do you figure? I mean, I'm reading this post right here, and it looks anti-4E to me. I really don't think the anti-4e sentiment is more negative, and posts like yours are a good example why. You're ascribing motivations to people without really knowing what they are about.

Since you are a convert, maybe you perceive attitudes in anti-4e people that you think you recognize from where you were. But since you converted and they haven't, it's likely they don't feel the same way you did. Maybe you were just uncomfortable in the first place because you didn't agree with the criticism in the first place and just couldn't admit it.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

The grognards and the kool-aid drinkers are both annoying as hell.

We need more people like you. And I'm being serious. A little independent thought could go miles around this place, and - dare to dream - perhaps some willingness to wait until June before lambasting or praising WotC.