D&D 5E I'm the DM and a player is trying to abuse the Immovable Rod. Advice?

[Maxperson]

Luckily this thread isn't about you.

My advice to the OP and everybody else reading is "lose the rods".

That's really it.


Zapp

You still haven't given any real reasons for that advice yet. In my experience, what constitutes a "pain", "headache", is "broken" and so on is really subjective. What you could find a painfully broken headache might barely be a blip on my radar.

 

[Maxperson]

That you can use two rods to climb any distance is hopefully obvious, granting you a slow but sure way of reaching any height and pass over any obstacle. Barring a doorway becomes easy, when the door or gate won't budge no matter what.

Climbing very far with any modicum of realism present is not going to work. Trying to climb up on something 2-3 feet long and in inch thick is incredibly hard. Further trying to balance on it while reaching down to deactivate the other rod is going to be even harder. The DM ought to set a DC check to do it for each and every time the PC climbs to a new rod and deactivates the old one. Barring a doorway really isn't a problem or headache.

Rods enable you to put great weights above where a monster is expected to appear.

And then you have to run up into the monster and deactivate them while both standing under the now falling weight, and being eaten by the monster. That or just leave the weight there doing nothing. Yay for broken! I need players like that in my game. My players like to get the best of the encounter.

Then the DM must wrestle with unwelcome mixes between game data (such as hp damage) and common sense expectations (such as the expectation that no matter the monster, it will be crushed by a large boulder falling on top of it).

Why would it fall? It's being held up by the rods.

Then you can use a rod to utterly wreck something large travelling towards it (like how space dust wrecks space ships) - abusing how D&D isn't set up to handle real-world physics such as potential, mass and acceleration. The "get swallowed, then leave an activated rod inside the monster" strategy is just one such manifestation of the unwelcome invitation to mix gameplay with engine physics.

Not really. Anything truly large is going to weigh more than the 8000 pound limit of the rod and not be wrecked by it. If it can swallow you, it's not going to be bothered by the rod.

Then comes the block and tackle engineering, where your player could start reasoning you could set up counterbalances or other contraptions to project immense amounts of force. And the worst part is, he would be right. Being able to have two fixed points in space that will never yield really opens the pandora's box of abuse.

They don't "never yield". Immense amounts of force will exceed the 8000 pound limit.

I'm getting a headache just by thinking about it

Not me.

 

[Maxperson]

Oh. I just figured out how to climb with two immovable rods.

You tie rope ladders to each of them. Then hanging off the one rod, you reach up farther to place the second on above. You then transfer to that second rod's ladder, grab the first r9d and climb up to the top, where you reach up and place that first rod above the second.

As DM, I wouldn't even require a check for this . . . Well, maybe a Constitution check if you're using it as a rope ladder to heaven, or a Strength check if that songbird who sings (sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven) flies into your hair.

Sure, that would work. I'd let it happen..........with no headaches!!! Magic is supposed to help. Negating the need for climb checks is, well, magical.

 

[Maxperson]

The problem is surely mixing bacon with dessert?!

The bacon cronut I had a few months ago disagrees with you.

 

[doghead]

Anyone have advice?

The idea seems a bit tenuous to me. But we are talking about a level 10 monk. And as several people have pointed out, its not especially powerful compared to what else is available.

I would be inclined to review the rules, come up with a process for how can be done, then discuss it with the player. Give them the player the option switching out the rods for a alternative if they choose to after the discussion.

The following suggestion is not IAW the RAW. It may not even be that good. Rather its just intended to give the player a way to use his favourite toy and make some cool moves.

-- Round One --
1. It requires a Critical or Called Shot to achieve the "perfect placement" initially. [1]
2. Following a successful placement of the first rod, a Grapple check [2] is required to lock the first rod.
-- Round Two --
3. A second successful grapple check is required to successfully activate the second rod and restrain the opponent.

[1] Using the Called Shot option puts the choice to initiate in the players hand, using the Critical Option puts it in the hands of the dice.

[2] Grapples checks normally require a free hand, but this could be covered by making both checks at a Disadvantage.

If the player does choose to continue using the rods, keep in mind some of the suggestions in the thread as to how opponents might deal with it. I particularly like the deactivate and take option.

thotd

 

[Sunseeker]

See, this is where I don't understand your position at all. The GM loved it. Because it's the kind of thing that makes for more interesting storytelling than "and then we do more points of damage". I can't see why it would be viewed as a "headache", or as "antagonistic play". This kind of thing is why we're playing D&D, and not a board game with a completely fixed rule set and no need for GM calls as to how things work out; so we can do interesting things and have cool things happen.

Well, 5E is definitely not a "completely fixed rule set" and from that certainly many problems stem. But I have no problem with "if the rules say you can do X, I'm not going to stop you from doing X". Still, I think there's a difference of intent which separates "shenanigans" from "cool things", even if the rules say you totally can do that thing. You can certainly perform the same action with ill intent towards the game as you can in a honest-to-goodness attempt to be cool or have fun.

I mean that's really the only thing that separates the "heroic sacrifice" from the "selfish attention grab".

I do not feel that the player in this situation is simply attempting to be cool or have fun.

 

[doghead]

I'm really curious what the OP thinks about all this and what comes about at his table after talking to the player.

I too am curious. Hopefully the OP will return and let us know.

thotd

 

[Uchawi]

Double check the rules to make sure the rods work as intended based on the action economy, then adjust the encounters based on new party tactics, and then add another scratch on your DM experience sheet on what type of magic you hand out in the future. It happens to all of us. That is how stories begin.

 

[discosoc]

The only way to prevent a player from abusing immovable rods is to give them a candle of invocation.

 

[Dausuul]

Climbing very far with any modicum of realism present is not going to work. Trying to climb up on something 2-3 feet long and in inch thick is incredibly hard. Further trying to balance on it while reaching down to deactivate the other rod is going to be even harder.

You just need a little creativity. Each rod should be attached to your wrist by a rope, and have a wooden plank suspended about 3 feet underneath, like a kid's swing.

1. Affix Rod #1 six feet in the air.
2. Stand on the plank under Rod #1, holding onto the rod for balance. You are now three feet off the ground.
3. Affix Rod #2 at eye level; if you're six feet tall, this is nine feet in the air.
4. Grab hold of Rod #2, and climb onto its plank. You are now six feet off the ground.
5. With your toe, push the button on Rod #1. It falls and is caught by the rope on your wrist.
6. Reel in Rod #1.
7. Continue this process. It's slow but requires neither extraordinary strength nor extraordinary balance. If you do fall, one of the ropes on your wrists will catch you.

What I don't understand is why I should care about the PCs being able to do something that most spellcasters can pull off starting at 5th level or so. I long ago learned that you can't expect vertical terrain to stop a D&D party once they get past the low levels. Sure, you can climb into the sky if you like. What do you plan to do when you get there?